Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Identifying plants Need Help with Plant id and control

This will be my first post with using pictures so please bear with me if I mess up.

I *think* the stuff floating is the same as growing submerged. This algae has rapidly started growing in areas <4 ft of depth (Note that pond is not fertilized and is approximately 4 ft. visibility).

I seems to ball up when floated to the surface in little "tufts" about 1" in diameter but can be stretched to about 3". Some of the floating stuff is dark green and some brown which, I would assume, means it may be dead.


Floating on top and growing on bottom:
[img][IMG]http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o484/djstauder/9051632953426_ORIG.jpg[/img][/img]

Another floating and bottom growth:
[img][IMG]http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o484/djstauder/10051632953499_ORIG.jpg[/img][/img]

Mostly submerged:
[img][IMG]http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o484/djstauder/51632992027_ORIG.jpg[/img][/img]

Stretched out and on white bucket:
[img][IMG]http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o484/djstauder/51632953512_ORIG.jpg[/img][/img]

Hmmm... Not sure that worked. FYI... I used Bruce's instructions.

I'll try it a little differently.

This will be my first post with using pictures so please bear with me if I mess up.

I *think* the stuff floating is the same as growing submerged. This algae has rapidly started growing in areas <4 ft of depth (Note that pond is not fertilized and is approximately 4 ft. visibility).

I seems to ball up when floated to the surface in little "tufts" about 1" in diameter but can be stretched to about 3". Some of the floating stuff is dark green and some brown which, I would assume, means it may be dead.


Floating on top and growing on bottom:


Another floating and bottom growth:


Mostly submerged:


Stretched out and on white bucket:

See this wrt FA.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92633#Post92633

This stuff doesn't have the same color and texture as the normal FA I've seen in my pond. The normal FA is bright green, puffy, and feels like very slimy in your hand. This stuff seems to grow in small tufts and is more "stringy."

Are there different types of FA?

Yep!

From ewest:
"Filamentous Algae some of the species Spirogyra, Anabaena, Oscillatoria, Lyngbya, Pithophora , Cladophora . Do a pic search on bing or google and see if you can id the one. Lyngbya is black but so are some others."

From my research, I can see that it is not spirogyra, Oscillatoria, Pithophora

I don't *think* it is anabaena but I could only find a few pictures other than microscopic.

I don't *think* it is Cladophora because my FA is not that bright green nor looks the same growing on the bottom.

It does look alot like Lyngbya the way it looks on the surface but not growing on the bottom. So, it could be lyngbya but could be anabaena or Cladaphora.

Would the treatment be the same for lyngbya, anabaena, and cladaphora?

Would it be prudent to send it off for analysis?

thanks,

Bill look at the pics above. There are thousands of types of FA . I just posted a few major names. Lyngbya is a tough type to deal with. Not all are treated the same but some are. See the archive. Id is critical.

Here is some very basic info from several sources (Bill edith this with your input and we can move to FA archive):



Spirogyra is easily identified by its bright, almost neon-green color. At the microscopic level, this algae resembles a DNA helix. In the pond environment, it's very slimy and usually has thick bubbles of protein (i.e. scum) surrounding it. Cladophora is another very common filamentous algae that resembles cotton. If you look closely at the shallow parts of your pond, you'll probably find Cladophora. Cladophora resembles tiny plant-like stalks that undulate and look "hairy". Pithophora is the third most common filamentous algae that grows in very long thick strands. Pithophora is also called "horse hair" algae because it resembles thick long hair and feels like wool.

http://www.lgtag.ncsu.edu/Lyngbyafactsheet.pdf - pics and text

Lyngbya is a filamentous cyanobacterium (blue-green
alga), Lyngbya, forms dense benthic and
surface mats with cells protected by an
external sheath comprised of polysaccharides,
peptidoglycans and minerals such as calcium
carbonate. Lyngbya can thrive at extreme
temperatures ranging from melt-water lakes
and streams to hot springs. This alga also
contains photosynthetic accessory pigments
(i.e. phycobilins) that permit growth in low light
conditions (i.e. < 2% incident photosynthetically
active radiation). Lyngbya can grow in waters
with low nitrogen concentrations (&#8804; 0.07 mg
NO3-N / L) due to its ability to fix atmospheric
nitrogen. Lyngbya can achieve densities of >
4000 Kg / acre dry weight with ~ 40-100% of
this biomass existing as benthic mats.


In the spring, the plant is black and then slowly become mottled with green, black, white filaments in late summer and fall. In addition to the floating mats, there are often submersed mats that are classified as benthic.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/freshwater/where/ponds/p/ap/guide/fila/lyngbyaspp.cfm pics and text

Lyngbya
Scientific Name: Lyngbya spp.

Distinguishing Characteristics:
•Blue-green algae that is very thick and tough when pulled apart.
•Often has musty or foul odor.
•Usually found in relatively high alkaline water.
•Forms thick, floating mats that are usually dark green or nearly black; but color may become mottled with light green or even white later in summer

Don't forget that the names listed above are genera (plural) - genus (singular). A genus often has numerous species similar to Lepomis for sunfish. Species within a genus can vary widely in shape, color, texture, susceptibility to herbicides and etc. Don't think this can be simple. Filamentous algal genera are numerous. Other common filamentous 'green' algal genera are Mouogeotia, Oedogonium, Zygnema, Stigeoclonium, Rhizoclonium, Microspora, Bulbochaete, Ulothrix and there are 81 green algae genera in total. There are about 60+ genera of filamentous Cyanobacteria - bluegreens. There are a few genera as filamentous desmids and diatoms. Many different algae can exist as filaments or strands. The tremendous diversity of algae is why I have a job.

Bill what is your guess on the pics above in DJ's pond ?

It could be one of many and I won't even venture a guess because I only have about a 5% chance of being correct. I am not familiar with a lot of the common filamentous genera in MS. The description and features as described by dj are unfamiliar to me. From the pictures it looks like it belongs to green algae group Chlorphyta (algal division-phylum) and I have about a 75% chance of that being correct.

guys,
Cannot thank you enough. I "netted" about 5 more gallons today as I did last week but it grows quickly or, should I say, floats up from the bottom quickly.

The water in my pond is mildly acidic at about 6.0 PH and the alkalinity is low at 20-40. From Esshup's awesome write-up, I note that lyngbya is usually in high alkalinity waters. I also noticed in one of the links that lyngbya is very matted while mine float in 1" to 2" "tufts" so I would surmise it not lyngbya.

So, should I attack this as it in the group Chlorphyta group assuming there is a treatment for any algae in the entire group?

Or, should I send off a sample and, if so, to who?

Thanks,
Dan

ewest did the legwork, all I did was copied/pasted. If there aren't any trout in the pond, and the algae is offensive, I'd just treat the pond 1/4 (if heavy algae) to 1/2 (if light algae) at a time with a chelated copper product, following the label for application rates.

Are all of the chelated copper products equal in effectiveness? I typically use the cutrine plus on (what I now think is) spirogyra and it is very effective.

Will it work on this FA as well or is there another product that will be more effective?

Thanks,
Dan

I really don't know. I haven't gone that deep into identifying the algae, if it's FA and floating, I hit it with Cutrine Plus and it works. If it's a couple of feet under the water surface, I use the granular and it works. (applied in accordance to label application rates)

For a waterfall/stream at one client, I turn off the waterfall and use phycomycin on the FA. I leave the waterfall off for 1/2 to 1 hr, then turn it back on. No treatment needed in the pond due to the Tilapia that I stocked. The water is recirculated from the pond to the waterfall/stream and back again.

Is the Phycomycin very effective on killing the FA in the water fall?

Bill:

I shut off the pump, and sprinkle the Phyco on the damp algae. It foams like crazy, and it's pretty well cleared up when I turn on the pump. If I remember, I'll take before and after pics this year. I have pics of the waterfall on the camera, I'll get them up on here in the a.m.

Update: I've got a guy from the Mississippi Extension Service coming out on Friday to see if he can ID the algae or aubmit it for analysis.

Another update: the Extension service fella said it was FA! I asked which kind of FA and he said he could take a picture and tell me. He called later to say he "thinks" it is some sort of spirogyra. Hmmm...

Anyway, he did give the name of a marine biologist in Miss. who would analyze it if I sent a sample.

Question: How would I "package" a sample? I assume it needs to stay wet. Would you put it in a jar?

Thanks,
Dan

I've sent samples of water plants priority USPS and next day USPS. Take a couple of damp paper towels, put the plants between them. Now put in a good zip loc bag. Put that bag in a 2nd zip loc bag. For added insurance, use a 3rd bag. I used 1 bag last time and the paper towels were still dripping when I put it in the bag. The postmaster on the receiving end wasn't happy.............

For FA samples I suggest that you just put the damp algae in a zip loc bag and then in another bag in case of leakage. Put the bags in a small box for shipping. Use very little if any water; just damp algae and not more FA than the size of an ink pen. The sample will stay wet if in a bag. Analyst can add water later if needed. Mail early in the week so sample does not sit over the weekend in a post office. Another option is to call the lab and ask for advice.

Yet another update: the Marine Biologist could not accurately identify the algae. He stated: "It could be a species of Pithophora, but it was hard to tell for sure" and suggests Cutrine+ granules for bottom algae and liquid for surface algae.

I treated about 50% of the shoreline about 2 weeks ago with the granules. I notice this week that some of the algae has died but some still flourishing. So, I treated the same area again this week with granules while expecting the delivery of the Cutrine liquid sometime this week.

I also noticed some of the algae dying along shorelines that were not treated.

3 questions:
1) Does it normally take more than one application to kill what "may" be pithophora?
2) I know that spyrogyra is high temperature sensitive. Is all FA temperature sensitive?
3) Is there a "private" service that will analyze algae?

Thanks,
Dan

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