Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Crappie pond whatcha think?

Try this one

Evaluation of F1 Hybrid Crappies as Sport Fish in Small Impoundments
MICHAEL L. HOOE and D. HOMER BUCK

Illinois Natural History Survey, Sam Parr Biological Station, Rural Route 1, Box 174, Kinmundy, Illinois 62854, USA

Abstract.—Growth and reproductive characteristics of reciprocal F1 and F2 hybrid crappies–white crappies Pomoxis annularis × black crappies P. nigromaculatus–were examined to determine if hybrids are better suited for stocking in small impoundments than their parent species. Relative weight gains of the reciprocal age-0 F1 and F2 hybrid crappies were not significantly different (P = 0.55), but the relationship may have been masked by differences in initial sizes of the test fish. Second-year relative growth rates of both reciprocal F1 hybrids were significantly greater than growth of either of the parent species and, with one exception, than growth of the reciprocal F2 hybrids. The reciprocal F1 hybrid crappies were capable of backcrossing with their parent species, and both reciprocal F1 hybrid male crappies had viabilities equal to those of their parent species. Egg viability for the F1 hybrid black crappie female × white crappie male appeared equal to that of the parent species and greater than that of its reciprocal hybrid. Recruitment in ponds was highest for the pure species, intermediate for the F1 hybrids, and lowest for the F2 hybrids. This study confirmed that F1 hybrid crappies may offer a viable alternative to stocking parent species in small impoundments, the F1 hybrid white crappie female × black crappie male being preferable to its reciprocal hybrid. We recommend that hybrid crappies be used only on an experimental basis pending a more thorough evaluation of the incidence and effects of backcrossing with parent species.

Are the hybrid crappie they are referring to the same that naturally occurs in some of our lakes down here? I believed they are called the black nose crappie because they have a very defined black stripe from their mouth to the dorsal. If I remember correctly they are a hybrid.

I would like to hear Todd Overton's thoughts since he is a well respected
PondBoss sponsor and selling Hybrid Crappie stating "spawning potential of
hybrid crappie is greatly reduced compared to that of their white and black
crappie counterparts, so they are a better option for small waters.
Suggested stocking rate is 100-150 per surface acre".

Comparison of Triploid Hybrid Crappie and Diploid White Crappie in Experimental Ponds
GLENN R. PARSONS

Department of Biology, The University of Mississippi, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

KEITH MEALS

Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks, 310 Shoemaker Hall, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

Abstract.—We crossed female white crappies Pomoxis annularis with male "black-stripe" black crappies P. nigromaculatus to yield hybrids possessing a distinct coloration that may serve as a natural tag when fish are introduced into existing crappie populations. Eggs of these hybrids were cold shocked to produce triploid hybrid crappies. In three spawns, the black stripe was expressed in 100% of hybrids that were not cold shocked and 85% of hybrids that were cold shocked. Coldshocked hybrids were 95% triploid and 5% diploid. Triploid hybrids bearing the black stripe and diploid white crappies without the black stripe were stocked into experimental ponds for growth and survival comparisons. There were inconsistent differences in growth, body condition, and survival of triploid hybrids and diploid white crappies after 1,151 d in ponds, but the gonads of triploid hybrids were consistently smaller than those of diploid white crappies for each sex. No reproduction was observed in ponds with triploid hybrids, whereas reproduction occurred in ponds with diploid white crappies. Although better growth and survival were not consistently observed among triploid hybrids, the lack of reproduction may be an advantage over diploid white crappies in the management of small impoundments.

wow interesting...So the Black Stripe crappie we catch are a normal viable subspecies of crappie occurring naturally in the lake. Must be more common in the south because I do not remember seeing them in Minnesota or Iowa and I have only caught them in lake Norfork and Bullshoals around here. How many sub species of crappie are there.

The crappie with the "black stripe" or "black nose" are black crappies native to the White River in Ark. Seeing their unique coloration, they were collected from the wild and raised in hatcheries and then sold, leading to their spread throughout many areas in the south... As the abstract posted by Eric above indicates, these "black nose" crappies have been crossed with white crappies causing some lakes to now have hybrid crappies with this distinct coloration. The "blacknose" crappie is not a scientifically recognized subspecies, just black crappies from a specific drainage(White River) with a unique coloration.

Cool info...About half the females I stocked in my pond were the black stripe. Love diversity.

My God is that too much information?...lol

I believe there was some factor that TJ could not reach a conclusion, IIRC.

I was interested in his results as well as many others.

He recently posted he's seen some sign of reproduction but he feels the verdict is still out on them. Hopefully he'll weigh in...

The crappie I stocked in my pond 2 years ago ended up being the black nose as well. they were only 2-3 inches when I stocked them so did not notice this color. But have since caught about 3 of them and they have all had the black stripe. I try to tag any and all Crappie I catch just so I know which ones are in there and once I get to the number I want I plan to keep all the others out just to see if the tagged ones do continue to grow ok. They sure are some neat looking fish, and I have never seen them before in any of the lakes we have around here.

I have a camp on a 7.5 ac pond, which I had heard had crappie in it, and decided on a whim to dunk some minnows back in early March. First one was 2 lbs 3 oz, and a bunch more after that, between 1.0 and 2.0. All black crappie. Subsequent trips to the pond yielded more of the same plus some smaller ones in the 9 - 10 inch range. The pond has a lot of threadfin shad, and gets fertilized regularly when water temp is > 60 f. I suspect the healthy shad population is key to the nice fat black crappie. We also have a good number of large LMB (4+ lbs) which I suspect helps keep the small crappie at bay. All of this to say that a relatively small pond CAN support a decent crappie fishery.

Sorry late to the party. Set some minnow traps early this Spring [March] and to my surprise discovered this:



Notice no blackstripe



I'm surmising this is the result of the HBC reproduction from Spring 2011. Fish was approx 3", apparently low WR, and in overall haggard condition. I wasn't happy to see the reproduction, but it's body condition gave me hope that the assertion that F2 were inferior was accurate.

I caught several HBC this Spring from around the dock fishing for BG - most fish ranged from 10 - 12", but Bruce indicated his Dad managed one estimated at 15", so I'm not unhappy with growth thus far.

This is what I know and/or hypothesize:

HBC grow fairly fast
HBC will reproduce
F2 fish - as evidenced a very small sample [1 fish], don't appear to be thriving, and MAY indeed be inferior.

Sorry I don't have anything more conclusive.

Looks like it could very easily be eaten by a LMB or HSB as well, which may lead to a stocking plan once more studies are done.

Keep up the work.

Thanks for the early morning laugh Zep!!!

Here are some pictures of a crappie my daughter caught on our Fathers day trip.

Do you think these are my original stockers from 2009 or do you think it could be from a spawn?

Or do you think they have even been in the pond long enough to spawn?

Do you have any length or weight measurements of the fist caught? How old were the fish you stocked back in 2009?

Even if you stocked small crappies in '09. My bet would be they are plenty old enough to spawn. How big is this pond, how big were the crappies when stocked and how many of them did you stock? What other fish are present? With that info you can get a better idea as to if these are originals(which is my initial guess) or first generation born in the pond fish...

The pond is about 1/4 acre or so. The crappie were 3-4 inches when stocked and I bought 30 but think 4-6 of them died.

As far as other fish we have HBG, BG, GSF, RES, LES, CC, LMB, GC.

I am no means an expert but I'll give you my opinion. Heck its free. 3-4" crappie in 2009 would probably be 2 year olds. They would have been capable to spawn in 2010 as 3 year olds. For sure in 2011 as 4 year olds. 2 growing seasons for your originals, at least in my ponds, would make them between 7-8". My guess is the fish caught last weekend were from your original stocking. Your offsping would now be in the 2-4" range depending on a 2010 or 2011 spawn.

I wonder how hard it is to catch the small crappie? I have not seen any either by eye, hook and line, or in the stomach of any fish. Heck they may not have even been able to spawn yet, not sure they have what they need.

How long does it usually take for a crappie to get to at least 10 inches in length as that would be the ideal size to take out if possible. Would love larger ones but we know that will not happen in this body of water.

Just curious.

Thanks

All depends on genetics, forage availabilty, etc. In some smaller ponds crappies may never successfully spawn.

It may be better do not in this pond since it is so small but would be neat to see if I could get a few. I had been trying to tag each one I caught up to about 10-15 fish then take all others out. Once I reached the 25 mark I would know that they have been spawning successfully and to remove all others going forward.

The problem is I may end up with the paper think 5 inch fish which could be a problem. But I would thing the larger LMB would love to eat them for me.

I guess it all depends.

Here is another crappie picture, I think this may be a spawn from a couple of years ago. Or just one slow grower as it is much smaller than the rest of the fish.

Any Thoughts?