Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Need help on new pond stocking

I am in the process of building a new 2 acre pond. I have an existing .5 acre pond on the same property. The new pond is nearing completion but will take a little while to fill. There is currently already a couple feet of water. I was considering taking delivery of some HBG this spring and holding them in the .5 acre pond in some type of enclosure until there is enough water to move them to the new pond. Any ideas on how to do this? Thanks for your help.

Hold the HBG in a cage. I have a couple of 4' sq. cages that I use for raising and/or holding fish.



I'd stock 10# of FHM in the new pond now. Get that forage base built up before stocking predators, which a HBG is one. They don't spawn enough to be forage for LMB.

What's the plans for stocking the new pond?

What did you use for the netting/ mesh for your cages? Are those just zip ties holding the netting to the frame? Would you recommend feeding the HBG in the cage and if so how?

I am thinking about stocking 1500 HBG, 20# FHM (now), 200 YP with subsequent stocking of 40 WE, and then 50 SMB. I understand the difficulty with SMB and WE in smaller bodies of water but would like to try it. If the SMB do not do well, eventually would stock LMB. I am currently working on structure for the fish which will include, palltets with cinder blocks, the new saturn style porcupine fish attractors (PVC), and various rock piles/ formations.

Any recommendations for stocking of new ponds based on this?

So you want a SMB, WE, YP pond? If so, there's a lot of great info on here about how to pull it off. Some very recent discussions. Personally I'd leave the HBG out. Where in WI are you? If near the southern end, RES would likely do well. If a SMB, WE, YP pond is your primary goal, we'll taylor a stocking plan to get you off to a great start...

CJB, I was doing the HBG primarily for the kids. Do you think they are counterproductive to YP/ WE and SMB? Yeah I would say that the SMB, WE, YP is primary, with HBG being secondary to keep the kids entertained. Based on a 2 ac surface area, max depth of 20 feet, what would your recommendations or plan be? Thank you.

Matt, I think they are great for kids. Will you be feeding the fish too? (the kids might like feeding them almost as much as catching them)

HBG are definitely great for kids. If you are going to be consistently feeding the fish, I would possibly consider them. However, I would not stock them until after your SMB are at least 6"-8" in length. I'd want them that length to make sure they can effectively prey on any offspring the HBG may produce. Their production of offspring will be limited at they are generally 90-95% male, however, they'll still produce some and you don't want a large crop of F2 and subsequent generations taking hold in your pond.

If you aren't going to be consistently feeding your fish, I wouldn't stock the HBG as they will strongly compete with your SMB for food resources. Honestly, in a private pond of 2 acres, if managed I think you can still produce a fishery where children can catch quality fish without much effort without the use of HBG. YP would be rather easily caught and within a year or two, your SMB will be reproducing if you place to correct rock structure for them to spawn on. In all likelihood, they'll produce too much and you'll need to remove a fair number of fish. Something the kids will love to help with.

Are you on the southern end of WI? If so, RES should work for you. In ponds where they aren't in competition with other sunfish species, they often are far easier to catch. They too could be a great source of fishing entertainment for the children.

Let me know if you must have HBG as a component of your fishery and I will give you my opinion on a stocking strategy.

CJB, I am planning on having at least two full time feeders placed on new pond with Aquamax Carnivore. I think I will go ahead with the HBG, so based on that what are your thoughts? Thanks again.

HBG are easy to source, inexpensive and hardy. I wouldn't go through the challenge of buying them now, caging them and then transferring them to your new larger pond. Just buy then when the time is right...

I am a fan of a diversified forage base. This is especially true with SMB and WE as they are less likely to completely destroy and extirpate most forage species like LMB are.

They may be tough to find but I am a huge fan of spotfin shiners and bluntnose minnows. They will, with the right habitat and proper management remain present in a pond with SMB and WE. So far, the only commercial supplier I have been able to find is Jonah's Aquarium. They are geared more towards native fish aquarists, but if you order these species in bulk, say 50 or more, they'll knock the price down to around $2-$4 per fish. It seems a bit pricey, which it is but IMO it's worth the expense in a SMB/WE pond.

Once the pond has 6' of water or so, contact them and stock at least 50 each of the spotfin shiners and bluntnose minnows. More would be better though... See http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=281556#Post281556 I've given a lot of advice in that thread as well. You need to build the right spawning structure for each species. Bluntnose utilize the exact same spawn structure as FHM. Spotfins however are crevice spawners. The easiest way to build spawning structure for them is to use a dowel rod with a small nail drive horizontally through the one end or just stout rope with a knot at the end. Place a CD down the rod or rope where it'll catch on the knot/nail. Then start stacking CD's one on top of each other. In between each CD, place 1 or 2 washers, old milk caps or something else that will create about a 1/8"-3/8" space between the CD's. The spotfins spray their eggs into these crevices. This spawning device is ideal as it keeps the eggs up off the sediment so they don't get covered and keeps them well oxygenated. The eggs being down in the crevices keeps them from being eaten by the spotfins themselves and other fish. 4-8 spawning structures per acre is ideal.

As you are stocking these species, source some papershell(calico) crayfish and contact Fattig's for PK grass shrimp. I'd look at stocking 50-100 crayfish per acre and 100-200 grass shrimp per acre.

I would also stock 5 pounds of FHM when you stock the non conventional forage species as well. You can also see if you can source lake chubsuckers and Johnny darters from Jonah's as they are also good forage candidates for a SMB pond. I stocked only 30 lake chubsuckers into my pond and they established nicely. The chubsuckers will provide a larger forage source along with your GSH as you begin growing bigger SMB and WE as both species will reach the 10"+ range. This larger forage source will be important in growing SMB over 4 pounds.

Next spring I would stock 1 pound of larger "brooder size" GSH along with 100-200 HBG and 100 YP if pellet trained or 50 YP if not pellet trained per acre. The GSH would be stocked later than the other forage as you have a SMB/WE pond and I don't want the GSH getting too big of a start or they can become an issue as bait stealers with too many making it to the 7"+ size. If you are in the southern 1/3 of WI, I would also try to source some RES and stocked 50-100 RES per acre in the spring as well.

Then in the fall, stock your SMB at 50/acre and WE at 20/acre. The following fall, stock another 50 SMB per acre and 20 WE per acre. You'll then need to restock WE every year in the fall if you want to maintain a year class of fish or biannually if you are fine with gaps in the year classes.

If you are not willing to go the non conventional forage route, then bump up the FHM stocking to 10 pounds per acre and stock 4 pounds of brooder GSH. However, I really think it'll be worth your effort to source the non conventional species!

So a synopsis:

When the water reaches 6':
FHM 5 pounds
spotfin shiner 50+
bluntnose minnow 50+
lake chubsucker 25+
Johnny darter 50+ (off all species, least needed)
PK grass shrimp 200-400
papershell crayfish 100-200

Next spring:
HBG 200-400
YP(if pellet trained) 200
YP(if not pellet trained) 100
RES (if in sourthern 1/3 of WI) 100-200

Next fall:
SMB 100
WE 40

The following fall:
SMB 100
WE 40

Restock 40 WE annually or biannually

Track the progress of your SMB via relative weight. If they reproduce too succesfully you will need to begin removing 6"-10" SMB by about year 4 or 5. Keep an eye on your forage base. If the bluntnose minnows and spotfins begin to get scarce, cut back on your WE numbers as well as remove more SMB.

Matt

I love your fishery plans. My main pond fishery consists of some of the same species - YP, SMB, WE, RES. I think HBG might be a good addition to enable you some action if RES are not feasible in your area.

I like Travis' stocking suggestions. I strongly recommend introducing a pellet program using Aquamax. Will help feed your YP, SMB and HBG not to mention your forage species, too - which means more frequent spawns.

CJ provides a couple viable options for stockings; one an ideal plan and one an easier alternative. Both can likely work okay.
The alternative forage fish are on the pricey side. If you are adventureous collect a few of these fish from local streams. To do this it will take quite a bit of homework.

I would add: to monitor your minnow populations and small fingerling fish use minnow traps baited with bread. fish food or maybe dog or cat food. Seining the shallow beach area in mid late summer can also provide an good idea of presence of numbers of small fish. When minnows are rare in the trapping / samplings your predators are likely too abundant.


Keep us advised as to how this all works out for you.

Yes, PLEASE do... We really wanna hear how ponds progress so we can all learn.

Thanks for all of your help. I just need some more water before I can go ahead and implement those plans. Hopefully some rain soon, but the 10 day forecast looks dry. I will keep you guys posted on progress.

Jonah's Aquarium says it will be July 9th before they can ship me my forage (spotfins, bluntnose, johnny darters). I have already stocked FHM and papershell crayfish. It is incredibly dry, we have had less than two tenths of rain in June, and very little in May. My well installation is now complete, just waiting for electric this week.

Does anybody see a problem with stocking about 200 RBT in the fall to provide an immediate winter fishery, prior to my spring stocking of YP, SMB, WE, and HBG? Thanks again for the input!

They will hammer your forage base during the winter... I'd be patient and hold off.

Esshup,
I'd like to build a cage like your 4 footer to grow BG. A few questions:
1) Do you use minnow seine netting on your cages? If so, what size mesh, etc.
2) Does the net have enough bouyancy to float with just the sealed PVC or does it sink?
3) How many BG could I put into a 4ft net if I wanted them to grow to 5" assuming I'm feeding Aquamax 500 into the cage?

Thanks,
Dan

I use a plastic netting that is made for fish cages. DIfferent sizes for different sized fish. From 3/16" mesh to 3/4" mesh. It's a balancing act. You want the mesh opening as large as possible without letting any of the fish swim thru. Better water flow thru the cage and less time spent cleaning algae off the cage.

I want the cage to float about 6" out of the water, so I attach a large bleach bottle at each corner, attaching it to the cage so the bottom of the bottle is even with the top of the cage. I drill 3/16" holes in the cage bottom, and half way up. I was worried that the cage might want to turn turtle and wanted the bottom of the cage heavier than the top.

Bill Cody or Cecil can give you the correct answer on the fish, I've never had more than about 300 in a cage, but I set them free when they were about 3"-4".

Jonah's aquarium can't source chubsuckers anymore. He said he does have Quillback carpsuckers, and wants to know if I want to try them. I have no clue on if this is feasible or a good idea. Any input on them for forage? Thanks much!

Also any help getting some of those northern rains to sink southwards would be appreciated. My corn is dying, my WSG's arent growing, and overall everything is ugly here. Thanks.

After a little research I see that the quillback carpsuckers can reach 26 inches, so I think I answered my own question. I will pass on any forage that will outsize my predators.

It would take many many years for them to get to that size, but they'd be over a foot in 3 years. I am not even sure they could spawn in a pond though. It's a shame he can't source LCS. I'm glad I got mine when I did. I wish Overton's still sold them...

I too love this plan and have been looking to do something similar.

Will those forage species survive in southern Kansas?

Are the stocking rates for 1 acre or 2?
Thanks!

Yes, they should do fine in Kansas.

I'm new here. About the quillback: If you want to have a forage species that doesn't get eaten by the top predators, wouldn't it make sense to have the adult forage fish be too large to eat? A sucker, such as quillback, would not be competing with the game fish for food. They have a completely different feeding strategy. And the annual offspring of the large suckers would provide a reliable supply of prey for the game fish. If the adult forage fish are small enough to be taken out by the predators, you may eventually, maybe quickly, lose your source of small forage fish. Is there some reason why large suckers would be detrimental to your pond? I guess this all depends on whether quillback can reproduce in the pond.

I believe this option is near the top of the thread in a drop down menu.

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