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My pond dried up in the draught last summer, I drilled a well, 335', and have filled my pond with the help of Mother Nature this Winter and Spring. My pond is about 1/2 acre, about 646,000 g's., and I top it off every third day with about 14kg's. While looking at a glass of pond water yesterday I noticed a slight yellowish cast to the water, I have also observed on my filler nozzle and stand pipe from the well, a yellow deposit. I have not had the well tested as it is for the pond and irrigation, nor have I tested the pond water. All life in the pond seems to be doing well, fish are eating good, no signs of distress. Pond nutrients seem to be in control, some vegetation, and a litttle FA but not bad. I will test as soon as possible, but until then does anyone have any ideas what mineral or element yellow represents?

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Well water around me is heavy in iron and has a orange yellow look to it...doesnt bother much...


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Bobby:

That's what I suspected too! Don't know much about chemistry or the effects of iron in the pond. Bet somone will be able to let me know.

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The only yellow chemicals I remember is sulfur. But, I'm betting that you are seeing iron. My well has just enough iron to slightly change the taste of the water. Have it tested. I doubt that it will effect anything in your pond.

Hey, wait a minute. I guess that it could be gold. Nah!


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Almost for sure iron
My water is the same

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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
The only yellow chemicals I remember is sulfur. But, I'm betting that you are seeing iron. My well has just enough iron to slightly change the taste of the water. Have it tested. I doubt that it will effect anything in your pond.

Hey, wait a minute. I guess that it could be gold. Nah!


I'm taking in samples today, How much is too much Iron? The book says avg. well water has 200ppm, I wonder at what level it can be harmful.

I like your secoond guess best!!!

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I find it hard to believe you have 200 ppm by your description. In fact I've never heard of any well having that much. Are you sure it wasn't a typo and 2.0 ppm instead?

Regardless iron shouldn't be a problem in your pond especially a pond that size and the amount of water you are supplementing.

I deal with iron from a well at 2.5 ppm into a 100,000 gallon pond (1/10th acre) 45 gpm 24/7 and it's not a problem with my trout.

Also keep in mind for an accurate iron test it needs to be on site. If you send off a sample it won't be accurate.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 05/04/12 09:01 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I find it hard to believe you have 200 ppm by your description. In fact I've never heard of any well having that much. Are you sure it wasn't a typo and 2.0 ppm instead?

Regardless iron shouldn't be a problem in your pond especially a pond that size and the amount of water you are supplementing.

I deal with iron from a well at 2.5 ppm into a 100,000 gallon pond (1/10th acre) 45 gphm 24/7 and it's not a problem with my trout.

Also keep in mind for an accurate iron test it needs to be on site. If you send off a sample it won't be accurate.


I didn't say I did, I said I read that was avg. for ground water, based on what you are saying I must have read it wrong, will go back and check it out as soon a I have time. These old brains aren't what they used to be, not that they were ever any thing to write home about!

Was going to drop a sample at the drillers office today, didn't say anything about it needed to be on site to be accurate. I guess we'll see...............Budster

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Up-date

Went back to sources and found three that said average ground water iron is 100 ppm, 200ppm is level dangerous to aquatic animals.

Talked to driller, said if iron test is done same day then accuracy is good. I have scheduled next tuesday to bring in samples for same day testing, they couldn't do it today.

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What sources are you using to determine these levels?

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Instar: I didn't write down the names of the studies, I found them on the internet google searching "safe iron levels in water".

I know I've seen your posts here and was hoping some one with hands-on experience and techinical knowledge would chime in. Looks like I have large amounts of Iron in the well, my stand pipe and filler nozzle are getting heavily stained, there is a noticable yellow tinge to a clear glass of pond water and my middle day PH today was 9.0.

I have tasted the well water and there is noticeable fowl flavor but I didn't think it was that bad. Will get tests tuesday, will not top off any more till then.

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I must agree with Cecil Baird 1. You are evidently misreading these sources. The US EPA lists the chronic level of Iron in water at 1000 micrograms/Liter. This translates into 1.0 ppm. See what the tests results are. Meanwhile, the pH level of your well water is problematic. How this will affect your pond will depend on how much you are adding at a time. What is the present AM/PM pH readings of the pond water?

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Last edited by ewest; 05/04/12 08:04 PM.















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Most of this is from the World Health Organization. Iron is the second most abundant metal in the earth’s crust. Elemental iron is rarely found in nature since the iron ions readily combine with oxygen and sulphur compounds to form oxides, hydroxides, carbonates and sulfides; most common in nature are oxides. Anaerobic ground water may contain iron (+II) up to several mg/l (ppm) without having any discoloration or turbidity when pumped directly from a well.

Iron in well water of 200mg/L is very, very high and could be an error. World health organization says iron can be as high as 50 mg/L in anaerobic well water, but usually concentration in the oxygen devoid well water is 0.5 to 10 mg/L. Median iron in surface waters is 0.7mg/L.
When water with dissolved iron is exposed to air a precipitate is formed Fe(OH)3 that is yellowish or ochre. The reddish precipitate is ferric oxide Fe203. Both precipitates can form gels or flocs that are detrimental to fish and aquatic life because they coat eggs and gills. Trout and pike have died at iron concentrations of 1-2mg/L (USEPA Quality Criteria for Water). Variability of natural waters with alkalinity, pH, hardness, and temperature and presence of ligands will change the valence and state of solubility, thus affecting iron’s toxicity.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/04/12 08:43 PM.

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Originally Posted By: budster


I didn't say I did, I said I read that was avg. for ground water, based on what you are saying I must have read it wrong, will go back and check it out as soon a I have time. These old brains aren't what they used to be, not that they were ever any thing to write home about!



No problem here. And I don't have a monopoly on a brains either, and I'm probably older than you too.! grin


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Yes, I, Bill Cody and Instar say something isn't right with the 200 ppm you read. Either it was micrograms/liter, it's a typo, or flat out wrong.

AES says in their catalog that iron as low as 0.15 ppm can be fatal to fish. I can tell you from personal experience this may be true in some cases, but with myself and my overall water chemistry it's not a problem. My RAS systems routinely run about 0.25 ppm and the fish are fine.

The sharp edged precipitate can collect on the gills of small fish and cause irritation but larger fish aren't as effected.

Stoney Creek Equipment company in Grant Michigan used to hatch their own trout (they may still do so) and they told me they have actually had it collect on the eggs with no problems. They also told me after about 4 inches the trout gill filaments seemed to be course enough to not be as sensitive.

One thing to keep in mind also is iron bacteria will break down the iron in a pond. Even though my trout pond received iron at about 2.5 ppm it dilutes down to about 0.4 ppm. Not sure if it's all dilution or some of the it is iron bacteria breaking it down as I see lower iron levels in the pond in the summer when the water is a little warmer.

The reason I am skeptical about iron tests that are sent off is I sent one off and it came back much much lower than the actual iron level. In fact it was almost undetectable according to the testing firm when I knew it was in the 2.5 ppm range.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 05/04/12 09:16 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Instar
I must agree with Cecil Baird 1. You are evidently misreading these sources. The US EPA lists the chronic level of Iron in water at 1000 micrograms/Liter. This translates into 1.0 ppm. See what the tests results are. Meanwhile, the pH level of your well water is problematic. How this will affect your pond will depend on how much you are adding at a time. What is the present AM/PM pH readings of the pond water?


Instar:

Tested pond Ph at 1:00 PM today, it was 9.0, tested pond Ph at 8:30 PM tonight, it was 9.0
9.0 is as high as my test kit goes, could be higher at mid-day based on your graphs.
Is there a quick way to lower Ph. I use PH down in the Hot Tub! Is there one for a really big not so hot tub?.

The info. I was reading was obviously in-correct, I was not mis-reading it, I wonder if all three sites accessed the same source for their mis-information. I hate it when I have trouble getting accurate info. easily, I've become spoiled and lazy using the internet so much, one must be careful I guess, thank goodness I found Pond Boss and all you devoted pondsters.............Budster

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What are you testing your PH with? PH paper, meter, or titration?

If there is no variation and your alkalinity turns out to be low I'd question your PH testing method.

Keep in mind Ph paper and titration tests gets old and inaccurate, meters need to be calibrated.

I ordered a total chlorine test that used test strips once for one of the high schools I set up an RAS for. The test was older than the expiration date (even though it was just sent as new) and sure enough they were getting inaccurate results.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 05/04/12 09:26 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Yes, I, Bill Cody and Instar say something isn't right with the 200 ppm you read. Either it was micrograms/liter, it's a typo, or flat out wrong.

AES says in their catalog that iron as low as 0.15 ppm can be fatal to fish. I can tell you from personal experience this may be true in some cases, but with myself and my overall water chemistry it's not a problem. My RAS systems routinely run about 0.25 ppm and the fish are fine.

The sharp edged precipitate can collect on the gills of small fish and cause irritation but larger fish aren't as effected.

Stoney Creek Equipment company in Grant Michigan used to hatch their own trout (they may still do so) and they told me they have actually had it collect on the eggs with no problems. They also told me after about 4 inches the trout gill filaments seemed to be course enough to not be as sensitive.

One thing to keep in mind also is iron bacteria will break down the iron in a pond. Even though my trout pond received iron at about 2.5 ppm it dilutes down to about 0.4 ppm. Not sure if it's all dilution or some of the it is iron bacteria breaking it down as I see lower iron levels in the pond in the summer when the water is a little warmer.

The reason I am skeptical about iron tests that are sent off is I sent one off and it came back much much lower than the actual iron level. In fact it was almost undetectable according to the testing firm when I knew it was in the 2.5 ppm range.



Well I will take a test to the driller on tuesday for same day testing. I never intended to send it off, my driller has a big lab and will test the well and pond for free. As far as what I read, that is what I read, don't know what to tell you beyond that other than the old saying "don't believe everything you read".

To give you an idea of how old is old, I played football with Cliff Branch of the Oakland Raiders at Colorado U, back in the day! You do the math...............Budster

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
What are you testing your PH with? PH paper, meter, or titration?

If there is no variation and your alkalinity turns out to be low I'd question your PH testing method.

Keep in mind Ph paper and titration tests gets old and inaccurate, meters need to be calibrated.

I ordered a total chlorine test that used test strips once for one of the high schools I set up an RAS for. The test was older than the expiration date (even though it was just sent as new) and sure enough they were getting inaccurate results.




I am using Pond Care testing solutions. Like I mentioned the test only tests to 9.0, maybe there is a fluctuation at mid-day it just didn't show on this test. If it matters NH3/NH4 ia 0, NO2 is 0, and PO4 is 0.

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I'd like to see what it tests at in the morning in relevance to Eric's chart showing diurnal variations in low and high alkalinity ponds.

The uniodized (NH3) and iodized ammonia (NH4), nitrites (N02) will normally be zip to negligible in ponds that are not heavily stocked. They're not really relevant in recreational ponds. Even nitrates (N03) are usually quickly reduced by algae and macrophytes.

Now that can be a whole different story in commercial ponds that are heavily stocked. I've seen ammonia kill fish in small over stocked ponds that are heavily fed. Usually it goes hand in hand with oxygen stress as the NH3 and NO2 both reduce a fish's ability to uptake oxygen.

One example was a person here in Indiana that planted 500 feed trained and fed largemouths in a 1/10th acre lined pond in the spring of 2011. By the fall of 2011 the fish averaged a pound a piece. After an early warm up in the spring of 2012, even with a surface aerator and after heavy feeding for a couple of weeks he had a complete fish kill. If you think about it he had about 5000 lbs. + of bass per acre when he had the fish kill. The individual had no idea about ammonia production and never tested for it. Most likely what exacerbated the problem even more was that early in the spring (March) the nitrifying bacteria didn't have enough time to develop enough and couldn't keep up with the ammonia produced. As ammonia levels rose the fish had less of a capacity to use the oxygen regardless of the surface aerator.

Largemouth bass are very resistant to NO2 as are most fish in the sunfish family so probably the unionized ammonia (NH3) was the coup de grace.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 05/05/12 07:28 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I'd like to see what it tests at in the morning in relevance to Eric's chart showing diurnal variations in low and high alkalinity ponds.

The uniodized (NH3) and iodized ammonia (NH4), nitrites (N02) will normally be zip to negligible in ponds that are not heavily stocked. They're not really relevant in recreational ponds. Even nitrates (N03) are usually quickly reduced by algae and macrophytes.

Now that can be a whole different story in commercial ponds that are heavily stocked. I've seen ammonia kill fish in small over stocked ponds that are heavily fed.




I will test in the morning and post at about 9:00am central. Thanks for your interest I appreciate the lessons.................Budster

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Pondsters:

Sure to ewests Charts, PH at 7:00 am was 5.0, big swing, low alkinity obviously. Now what?

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I am forced to question the reliability and accuracy of the test materials that you are using. You previously stated that you obtained a mid-day pH reading of 9.0 and now you are saying that the early AM pH reading is 5.0. That is a 4.0 point swing in 4 - 5 hours. This abrupt and enormous change in pH would result in, at the least, definite signs of stress in your fish and most probably occurrences of mortality. Since this is evidently not the case, based on one of your earlier posts, the test results must be inaccurate. Before you pursue any remedial action you must ascertain EXACT and ACCURATE parameter levels.

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Afternoon reading was day 1, morning reading was day 2, Over night approx. 17 hrs. between readings. Large swing as ewests chart would indicate low Alkinity. Charts show swings from 5.5 to 10.5, indicitive of low alkinity. Review charts above.

Last edited by budster; 05/05/12 09:42 AM.
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