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#289406 - 04/26/12 08:30 PM Crappie pond whatcha think?
JamesBryan Offline


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 459
Loc: N.W. Missouri
Hey all. My sister in law, back in Sept. of '09, threw 100 crappie into a pond that had absolutely no fish in it.It's a 3/4 to 1 acre pond, with high visibility. To this day no other fish or other species has been installed. The crappie have pulled a spawn.

I was totally surprised they even survived, let alone have caught over 20 of these in 2 hours angling.

How are they doing in your opinions?


Attachments
crappie.JPG (477 downloads)

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#289407 - 04/26/12 08:34 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
ewest Offline
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Heading toward an overcrowded mess most likely.
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#289408 - 04/26/12 08:35 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: ewest]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1346
Loc: Central Kansas
I agree with ewest.

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#289409 - 04/26/12 08:43 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: jludwig]
JamesBryan Offline


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 459
Loc: N.W. Missouri
I was actually wondering about their appearances as far as health is concerned.They went in at approx. 2 inches.

An overcrowded mess, I'm sure. But the wonderful thing about that is, this pond can be easily drained.
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#289412 - 04/26/12 09:31 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
ozarkstriperscom Offline


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 329
Loc: Mansfield, mo
Hey James they look great to me. Crappie are a four letter word around here and probably with good reason but i am a crappie fan. I know they can work in a pond but the "it depends" comes into play big time. I have fished some excellent crappie ponds and before I found this forum I just thought all you had to do was stock the crappie and enjoy. But after all the reading and advise i have come to realize that the ponds I fished for crappie in the past were no accident. I remember one in particular that was about 3/4 acre up by Louisburg and the owner always told us to keep all the crappie we caught and always turn the largemouth back because he only had a certain amount of them and they would not reproduce. It never made sense to us but we followed his instructions and always caught plenty of 10 - 14 inch crappies. Now that I know a little more (thanks to my p.b. education) I realize he probably had the same sex lmb in there to control the crappie numbers and I now know why the pond was full of shiners. It all makes sense now. We never did catch any other fish in that pond besides crappie and the occasional big shiner but every year we always went there to get the first fish fry of the spring. Perhaps it might make sense to throw in some same sex lmb for pop control and some gsh and fhm for forage and go for it. I have seen it work.

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#289419 - 04/26/12 10:29 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: ozarkstriperscom]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Black crappies in particular but white as well can do quite well on just invertebrates found in a pond. Dragonfly nymphs, damselfly nymphs, midge nymphs, diving beetles, water boatman, nightcrawlers and worms that get washed in, leaches, crayfish, etc...

The crappie in the photo had plenty of these to eat only competing with just the other crappies stocked and no other species in a 1 acre pond. Once the crappies pull off their first spawn, there will now be hundreds if not thousands of mouths to feed. The originally stocked crappies will feed heavily on their own offspring, but at their size, they'll only be able to prey on crappies up to about 3". Once that first year class reaches sizes above that, there will be little if any mortality. The remaining crappies which will number in the hundreds will now eat themselves out of house and home.

The first stocked crappies will have issues now as that once abundant supply of invertebrates is now gone because their offspring has eaten them all. Their offspring is too large for them to eat as well.
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#289456 - 04/27/12 09:12 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: CJBS2003]
Bill Cody Offline
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Yes to what CJ said AND when the original stocked crappie die/harvested all the large ones will be gone and only the small ones from years of recruitment will remain. Numerous ponds have success for the first few years. Long term success is another story.
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#289467 - 04/27/12 10:18 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: Bill Cody]
MRHELLO Offline
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Registered: 05/05/10
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That fish looks pretty good to me, I will be curious to see how they look in a few years as well so I hope you keep us posted. The one thing you mentioned is that it can be drained easy and this may be your plan. But you may get at lest 1-3 years of good fishing to at least put food on the table. One thing you may consider before you do drain and start over would be to add a few Flathead or Blues maybe both just to see how much damage they could to the population in a years time or so. I am sure most would say this is crazy but my thought is if you are going to drain it anyway it may be neat to see if what they say about the Flathead is true and if they can manage to eat most of the fish, before you drain, plus who knows you may even see an increase in size of some of the older fish.

Just a thought, and something I have considered in one of our ponds, just have had issues sourcing the fish to do this.

Thanks

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#289474 - 04/27/12 10:58 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
mnfish Offline
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I am in the very early stages of my crappie pond experiment and have learned a couple of things about a minnesota dug out pond. In my experience, and knowledge gained from the PB experts, if you don't monitor and harvest accordingly those BC will absoletley over reproduce their environment. The growth will stop and the BC will be paper thin (neighbors pond did just that). I remove every BC I trap and catch. I have gotten real good at cleaning 6" crappies grin IMHO I think 12"-14" BC are possible in a 1 acre pond. Its just more "work". What are you using as their primary food source?
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#289478 - 04/27/12 11:52 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: mnfish]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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The beauty of a mini pond that's easily drained/seined/refilled is one can launch experimental fisheries with little downside. I would imagine very intensive management would be needed if the pond remains a pure BC pond. Or, you could consider as many suggest adding some Apex predators to help you control numbers. I think 10-20 single sex LMB would be an interesting solution - sounds like Ozark has some experience with this and it yielded good results.

I love the experiment, we all can learn something new potentially from your efforts! Keep us in the loop.
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#289510 - 04/27/12 08:04 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: teehjaeh57]
JamesBryan Offline


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 459
Loc: N.W. Missouri
Sounds like to me maybe the U.S. should have dropped crappie on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I jest.

I understand the reasoning why saying the words..."I want to put crappie in my pond" on here will get your mouth washed out with soap.

Most species of fish, that I am personally familiar with, all run the risk of overpopulating and stunting.

I have seen it personally with BG, BH, CC, LMB.....Maybe not as quickly, or to the degree as Crappie, but nonetheless.

When I say this, it is not meant to be derogatory to anyone. I have read alot of threads on here, and all very interesting and educational. When these crappie were stocked, it was P.P.B. (pre-pondboss).



In an old post, someone was discussing putting crappie in their pond. Areply was "some people have to learn by doing, and cant believe what they read"(something to that effect anyway.)

My reply...and I hope you understand...

I have seen pictures, videos, documentaries, about numerous things in nature. I have always dreamed of going on a road trip and driving through Monument Valley in Utah. Always dreamed of going to see the Grand Canyon.All my life I have wanted to see Yosemite, drive the Pacific Coast Highway in California, and see the Redwood Trees in Northern California.

I have seen many things on these attractions, and am actually going to go do all of this next month. Gotta see it.



Why do laundry? Your clothes will just get dirty again. Why get out of bed? Night will be here again soon.

Why dig a pond? It will just fill in again.

Anything in this life, that anyone chooses to do,if intended to have any kind of success, requires somekind of input.Air isnt even free, you have to work to get it in. Everything we do in this life is vanity.Read the Book of Ecclesiastes, and ponder.

Now enough of my inspirational thinking.....


Crappie in my opinion are some of the best eating fish, I have ever experienced. The pond in question, is in it's own draw, with no ponds downstream to infect with an unwanted problem species.

When the pond becomes unmanageable, it can be destroyed and started over. With a few gallons of gasoline, and my 6 pacer pumps out in the shed, this pond can be drained with minimal expense.If this crappie stocking can support 2-3 years of crappie eating, it will have been worth it.

I will have been able to do the following.

I will have fished on a BOW that did not require getting permission from my local, state or Federal government.

I was able to drink beer(and get slobbering drunk if I wanted, without the fear of DWI, or public intoxication), smoke cigarettes, speak with fowl language, relieve myself, without risking getting put on a sexual offenders list.

No game warden sitting by my pickup wanting to see my license,stamps, or creel.

I was actually able to catch a few crappie....

The experience of raising crappie was realized in a manner that was not just read about. "Well....so and so says.......do this or dont do that."

The pond has been sitting there vacant for approx. 18 years.So what was lost?

The cost of stocking the crappie fingerlings was approx. $60.

@mnfish. There has never been anything put in this pond but crappie. No FHM .Nothing. Those Crappie ate what God gave them. That's why I was so surprised they survived. let alone grew nicely.I dont believe their WR is premium, but every bit as good as anything I ever caught in public waters.

100 crappie were ordered from a fish days. I have no idea the real numbers that were stocked. All that were caught were released.

The reason I say they have spawned I have seen 3-4 smaller crappie, approx. 5-6" long. They may be runts, I just dont know 100%.

I see many references here to the Missouri Dept. of Conservation, and fish stocking strategies. My following statements are not meant to be in any way inflammatory to the MDC. I just call them out as they are considered a go to agency for information.And to show that opinions change over time, and not everything is chiseled in stone.

I was talking to my area Conserv. agent last fall. I had stocked WE and YP in my pond. She informed me I should have stocked white perch instead.Now, according to some of what I have read on here and other places, white perch are also considered a menace.


She also elaborated on the dept. WE stocking program, and it's birth. For years, she said it was the Dept's opinion that stocking WE in Missouri waters was a waste of time and effort. Wouldnt work. Well it just so happens that a person from the Northern states,whose passion was WE,joined the Conservation dept, , started the WE stocking program......and it has had some success.

So I guess the bottom line is this....nothing ventured nothing gained.

I understand and appreciate the caution that is conveyed in management matters. Not everyone has a small pond just laying around doing nothing. And many like me, are ignorant to many of the dynamics of a fishery and species involved.


So.... I now have a pond with Crappie in it.......




Edited by JamesBryan (04/27/12 08:38 PM)
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#289527 - 04/27/12 11:39 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
CJBS2003 Offline
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The nice thing about owning your own pond is you can pretty much stock it however you like. I think one of the big goals of this forum is the sharing of information. We want pond owner's to be educated on the decisions they make. Once they know the facts, how they stock their pond is up to the them. I don't think any forum member wants to wash someone's mouth out with soap because of a fish they stock or any other decision they make about their pond. We just want people to be well informed so they don't make a poor decision. Sometimes doing unconventional things works out great, sometimes miserably. We just hope pond owners share their experiences with fellow forum members. In both good outcomes and bad ones... This is how we all learn. From having been on the forum for a while now I see many people ask for help but never come back to share how things have played out in their ponds. I personally want everyone to share their experiences, conventional and unconventional alike so we can all learn from them. It's been said more than once on here but with almost any management action one takes with their pond it all depends. What may rarely work in most ponds might just work for your pond. We won't know until it's tried but we can certainly say the odds of that management practice is likely to lead to unwanted issues.
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#289661 - 04/29/12 10:47 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: CJBS2003]
spinnerbait Offline
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Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 390
Loc: NC
I fish a friends 4 acre pond that has white and black crappie in it. There is no wood, tree cover whatsoever on this pond. My friend doesn't care about fishing, he just enjoys it being in front of his house. It is a beautiful place. There's redears, BG, and bass also. Lots of small bass, and a few large bass. I love crappie for eating, they're delicious! We fish this pond and harvest heavy amounts of crappie, and have done this for 26 years now. It depends on ones goals for there pond. This pond may be an exception. I think the fact that there has no cover, other than chara, and the crappie are easliy accessible may make a difference.


Edited by spinnerbait (04/29/12 10:48 AM)
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#291513 - 05/13/12 05:26 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
hang_loose Offline
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Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 885
Loc: Sunbury,Ohio
JamesBryan, I love to eat crappie too. I have black crappie,YP,WE&some CC (besides the BG). Also I put some golden trout in my pond last year. People told me they wouldn't live but they are still kicking butt. One more thing... I put approx. 5lbs of minnows a month in my pond from May to Oct. A little pricy but nothing like a fat healthy fish to eat.

Its your pond JB....Stock what you want but feed your stock.

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#291520 - 05/13/12 08:20 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
squeeky Offline
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Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 193
Crappie is my favorite fish to catch. I haven't stocked them because of their over populating reputation. However, they do exist in my creek pond, and I can only guess how they might have got there. The crappie have not become the disastrous problem that posters here write about, though. I caught a few two years ago, but rarely catch one now. I would love your 'problem' of catching 20 in two hours.

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#291523 - 05/13/12 08:43 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Often times crappies struggle to successfully reproduce in smaller ponds because they are early spawners. With a smaller pond there's so much fluctuation in the water temp early in the year, their nesting success rate is often poor. However it just takes one or two good years and you have serious management issues.
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#291524 - 05/13/12 08:44 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
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Nice post CJ !

The condition of the first BC pic is good.

I don't think anyone here has a dislike for Crappie. They are my favorite freshwater fish to eat. In most small ponds they will be very hard to manage. Sometimes it works well - most times not so well.

One of the first principals here is the right of private pond/lake owners to do what they want with their water. Our job is to provide info to aid in making decisions. We support you doing it your way.

There is a extensive thread on crappie here including at least one plan that looks like it works.


Edited by ewest (05/13/12 08:49 AM)
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#291532 - 05/13/12 09:37 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
ozarkstriperscom Offline


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 329
Loc: Mansfield, mo
JB Good point about the mdc and the walleye program.. Walleye in this state have now become one of the top success stories of mdc legacy and they were "not supposed to do do well at all" despite the world record coming from Arkansas. Every lake they have been introduced in has awesome walleye fishing with excellent quality and quantity of fish, No doubt with a lot of behind the scenes work from the mdc as far as supplemental stocking, partnership programs with the army corps of engineers in regulating tailrace flows during key periods, and other management issues. But point being if you want it bad enough and are willing to put in the extra effort nearly all things are possible.

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#291533 - 05/13/12 09:41 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
JamesBryan Offline


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 459
Loc: N.W. Missouri
Hey guys, Just back from my major road trip! Was Beautiful and great...and wonderful to be home!

CJ, and Ewest I started writing a long post and was starting to blather, and decided to try and shorten.

EXPERTS are people who can recognize the mistake you are about to make.

How do you become an expert? LOL I speak from experience.

I anticipate the Crappie pond becoming a problem.As with any BOW without management, there is a good chance that things can go to Hades.

I truly appreciate opinions, pro or con.

What's the average life expectancy under average conditions for BC?
The reason I ask will help in designing a management strategy. I had considered adding minnow species, but backed the truck up a bit. If BC are proflific spawners, will they not give me the same thing as minnows? Young to eat?

I ask about the age expectancy as I am considering a slot length limit.Keep no fish LONGER than "x". Judging by the gape on these BC, they can eat fairly decent sized minnows.And if I understand correctly, feed/weight conversion is similar to LMB.

Of course a certain sized spawn will be required.Any thoughts on management of a crappie only pond? Let's consider this a test tube guys.
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#291535 - 05/13/12 09:54 AM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
CJBS2003 Offline
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From some of the research I have seen, expect most crappies to live 6-8 years with some pushing the 12 year mark.

Crappies YOY generally have fairly fast growth rates, making them too large too fast for many larger crappies to eat. Will crappies eat crappies, you bet but they aren't gonna be able to eat enough nor will YOY crappies provide quality forage. Keep in mind though that crappies and the black ones in particular are able to do well on larger zooplankton and no to few vertebrates in their diet. Now larger crappies will struggle to fill their bellies as invertebrates, particularly zooplankton only get so large.

The challenge you have with you pond is your crappies have a huge head start on any other fish you stock. If one wants to have crappies in their pond, I would generally recommend they be added 3-4 years after the bass are added. This allows there to be enough bass of a large enough size to effectively prey on crappies 5"+. With your situation, even if you stocked predators now, it may take them 3 or 4 years before they become effective crappie eaters. That means there may be 3 or 4 more generations of crappies to deal with...


This is far from proven, but here's the route I'd go if you are really trying to grow some quality crappies.

Minimize vegetation and cover/structure in your pond. Stocked 10 pounds of FHM and 10 pounds of the largest GSH you can find. Try to get the GSH in soon as they should be ready to spawn here any day now... This fall I'd then try to source the largest HSB I could find and stock 50 of them. Do not pellet feed the HSB. Hopefully they'll take to feeding on the crappies along with some GSH and FHM no doubt. As they thin out the GSH and FHM, they'll be stuck with mostly YOY crappie to eat.
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#291555 - 05/13/12 03:36 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
ewest Offline
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That is similar to what the thread says SEP has had success with. Difference is they use TShad in addition to GShiners.

See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...0&site_id=1


Edited by ewest (05/13/12 03:39 PM)
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#291556 - 05/13/12 04:10 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
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Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: JamesBryan
Sounds like to me maybe the U.S. should have dropped
crappie on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


Ha Ha....James I too love crappie, think they are beautiful fish
(10 times prettier IMO than bluegill), taste great, and fight like hell.

It was kind of bummer when I joined PondBoss to learn of all the evils of crappie.
I know the experts know what they are talking about so I've been like "oh well sadly
no crappie".

But a pond professional told me recently that there is some kind of hybrid crappie
that can't reproduce so maybe that can be an option to lessen the down side of crappies
for us crappie fans?




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#291559 - 05/13/12 04:18 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: JamesBryan]
CJBS2003 Offline
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The hybrid crappie can reproduce. The success of their reproduction and how viable their offspring are is what's at question. Triploid crappies if they ever become available would be interesting...
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#291560 - 05/13/12 04:23 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: CJBS2003]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
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Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
The hybrid crappie can reproduce. The success of their reproduction and how viable their offspring are is what's at question. Triploid crappies if they ever become available would be interesting...


Looks like the hybrid would be an improvement though....

"Hybrid Crappie

The Hybrid Crappie (Black/White Cross) are finally available as an option for stocking crappie in smaller lakes and ponds. Traditionally crappie have not been recommended for stocking in less than 10-15 surface acres due to their potential to overpopulate. The spawning potential of hybrid crappie is greatly reduced compared to that of their white and black crappie counterparts, so they are a better option for small waters. Suggested stocking rate is 100-150 per surface acre. Ideal forage for crappie are minnows and threadfin shad."


OvertonFisheries



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#291562 - 05/13/12 04:26 PM Re: Crappie pond whatcha think? [Re: Zep]
esshup Offline
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I believe TJ stocked them in at least one of his ponds (intentionally) wink (The Hybrids). Hopefully he'll see this.
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