Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass Continued quest to sex smallmouth bass

I caught four smallmouth out of the main pond today and moved them to the spawning pond which makes a total of eleven smallmouth bass so far. I may add one more fish and stop as the pond is only 1/10th acre and I don't want to produce too many fry and have them overgraze the zooplankton. That said, I don't have much of a clue to the sexes of the fish at this point!

Anyhow, I sedated them and took the following pictures of the urogenital orifices. Anyone think they can see a notable difference in one or all of them?

The first and third fish were the largest and/or plumpest. It appears the urogenital opening is notably different of the first and the third fish vs. the other two? And the other two fish that were smaller seem to have very similar morphology? Or perhaps I'm just hoping it could be this easy? Thoughts?

I suppose I could sacrifice a few and cut them open to see if their a pattern in the appearance of the orifices but I really hate to as these are costly fish.

Here are the actual fish that correspond in the same order as the above pictures:

I'll bet the last one is a male. The first one certainly seems to have a different urogenital orifice to me. Honestly Cecil, I think with 11 or 12, you'll get the number of fry you're wanting. A bigger factor in overall success will be as you already eluded to is the quality and quantity of zooplankton that is blooming when your fry are starting to feed on it.

No egg probing tubes yet? Those smallies don't look too happy esp the two at the bottom lying on the dry dock. I suspect they now have a new 'opinion' of their O'Great Master. They might even refuse to reproduce since they were so rudely treated during the 'foreplay games'. You can probably scratch the last four from this springs 'repro games'. They probably now have 'attitudes'. No.3 appears to be a female to me and No.4 a male. Oh yea, nice looking smallies. Good job of getting them this far.

And you think egg probing will help their attitudes

Blair - I was pulling the "Baird chain". I've heard some even enjoy the probing providing it is performed tenderly.

I know you were Bill I was just teasing you too.

They were knocked out by a sedative Bill. Not even any alien abduction story to tell.

No Bill, probably too late to order the catheter tubes. Maybe next year, plus the tubes probably wouldn't make the minimum order.

CB1= check this out:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Clear-Cathete...=item336c7b2525

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puppy-Kitten-tub...=item35ba460cd3

Thanks Bill!

So what did you knock them out with?

By the way, did I ever tell you my story about the snake, the frogs, and ... oh, never mind!

Ken

Bill those are way too big for use in probing for sex products. You might as well cut them open if you're going to shove one of those in! Ouch!

The tubes I would use are are only a few mm in diameter. Similar to mixed drink straw but even smaller. AES used to sell them but I don't think they're in the catalog anymore.

This stuff:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40...-All-Categories

Not cheap but a gram or so will do the job in a five gallon bucket. I don't weigh it. I just sprinkle a little in water and mix it with my hand.

I mainly use it to euthanize the fish I sell to taxidermists just before I freeze them. I basically over doze them with it.

One should never use it to euthanize fish that are meant for the table, however.

How long does the sedation last? Curious if it could be used to limit DO consumption during a long haul with fish...

Don't know about what CB1 used but it is common to sedate bigger fish for moving to both reduce O2 demand and also to keep them from banging around and causing injury.

How long it lasts depends on how much is used, water temp, species, size of species etc.

And yes as Eric says it can and is used for sedation on hauls but I'd be afraid to use it. Why? If you use too much the fish can end up jammed up against each other and not breathing properly. There is also a fine line between sedation and the point of no return. It requires some experimentation and experience. I just don't have that kind of experience yet.

As soon as my fish show signs of lethargy I take pics, measure, weigh, or whatever I need to do and get them into fresh water ASAP to recover. I don't have a gram scale or find it practical to have one outdoors with a powder in the wind, so I just tweak a little in the water -- another reason I am so careful.

Sounds like you could easily kill a lot of fish if done wrong. Especially if used for purposes other than what you're doing Cecil.

Perhaps with experience keeping records of temps, amounts used using a gram scale, and one's personal experience with particular species, sizes, and one's own water chemistry it wouldn't be so bad.

Yes, I think keeping a log and a willingness to kill a lot of fish learning you could make it work.

I don't think you'd have to kill any. If they go belly up too quickly in a bucket just put them in fresh water.

Sounds like a good PB article...