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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy


Speak for yourself! We're still waiting for you to put some fish in a tank! grin


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy


Just Ideas.. Got to do something while watching a pond fill and keeping the beer from getting warm. grin


You're ahead of JKB! grin


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy


Just Ideas.. Got to do something while watching a pond fill and keeping the beer from getting warm. grin


I hear ya! You be addicted at this point grin

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy


Speak for yourself! We're still waiting for you to put some fish in a tank! grin


One wallet draining step at a time! laugh



I lied whistle and added a second PLC.

I just need a couple metal din rail clips to hold the solid state relays in place/separated. Fortunately I bought the SSR's capable of 480 volts. Will run them on 240 volts with 1000 watt heaters. The operating temperature curves fall in a happy zone smile

I have the other three relays (plug into the black things in the middle) up in Fremont.

I need to tighten up the grey wire duct (it is precision cut, so the pic's do not do it justice because it is floating around) , and this is ready to wire!

One more smaller sub panel going on the door that needs to get built. Then prep the enclosure and mount the HMI, Meters and peripheral devices.

After that, I'll start on test tanks.

Just a hobby wink

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I hear ya. Just teasing you!

It's actually more fun the way we are doing it (small scale) No big pressure or some bean counter from the bank breathing down our necks.

Bell Aquaculture down here had now invested 60 million according to a source. Holy Moly!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Update.

I have installed the piping. It seems to work well. It is an 1 1/2" pipe set at a level about 1/2" below the 4" pipe. It is full and flowing well. The 4" flows just a bit. Enough to keep the top clean. So most of the flow is from the bottom. smile Tho I have to put a screen or something on the bottom when I get the trout. They may just fit up it. Or at least get stuck. Any suggestions on design or what to use. I'd like to make sure the holes are big enough to keep sucking junk off the bottom.




I put a few pan fish in. I went up the lake and caught them yesterday afternoon. Mostly they are Yellow Perch and Pumpkin Seed. I put them in so they could stir the bottom a bit and wash out the last of the silt from construction. They are doing a fine job.. Over night they cleared a 3' circle. I plan on having them in there just a few weeks so I plan to just give them some worms. How many and will this work? The fish are 7" average and about 20 in total. The perch are bigger tho. Like 10".



Well I finally took the water temp. A few surprises.
The spring is colder than I thought. It also warms more than I expected on top of the pool. It was a bright sunny "hot" day yesterday. No cloud cover at all. So solar thermal gain was pretty high.


Temp at "aeration" pipe. 48F
Temp at top of pool. 53F
Discharge pipe water temp. 51F


P.S. I took the temp this morning.. Overcast a bit. It's 48F all around. The sun really heats the water fast. Interesting.

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Hey Stan, your sure not wasting any time getting things done.

You could reduce suction at the opening of your 1&1/2" pipe by putting a T on it and also drill lots of holes into the T, then cover it in screening, this reduces the intake suction at any specific point and allows the screen to stay cleaner, also don't put the screen tight to the inlets on the T, I have done this to my 2" siphon inlets that supply water to my pond.

As long as you have some shade for the Trout that should keep the stress down on them.



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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Hey Stan, your sure not wasting any time getting things done.

You could reduce suction at the opening of your 1&1/2" pipe by putting a T on it and also drill lots of holes into the T, then cover it in screening, this reduces the intake suction at any specific point and allows the screen to stay cleaner, also don't put the screen tight to the inlets on the T, I have done this to my 2" siphon inlets that supply water to my pond.

As long as you have some shade for the Trout that should keep the stress down on them.



What do you think of a manifold of sorts... Like 6-8 1/2" holes over the length of the deepest portion.

I plan on putting a deck over the pond with a 4x8 opening. Then building a small pole building over the whole platform. This will give them some hiding spaces. Protect them from birds and other critters. Also give a nice spot to feed them even in winter.

I just wanted to see how well fish do in it before the whole build out... It would be a PITA to find out something minor is wrong after a building is built.

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Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Hey Stan, your sure not wasting any time getting things done.

You could reduce suction at the opening of your 1&1/2" pipe by putting a T on it and also drill lots of holes into the T, then cover it in screening, this reduces the intake suction at any specific point and allows the screen to stay cleaner, also don't put the screen tight to the inlets on the T, I have done this to my 2" siphon inlets that supply water to my pond.

As long as you have some shade for the Trout that should keep the stress down on them.



What do you think of a manifold of sorts... Like 6-8 1/2" holes over the length of the deepest portion.

I plan on putting a deck over the pond with a 4x8 opening. Then building a small pole building over the whole platform. This will give them some hiding spaces. Protect them from birds and other critters. Also give a nice spot to feed them even in winter.

I just wanted to see how well fish do in it before the whole build out... It would be a PITA to find out something minor is wrong after a building is built.


What about photoperiod?
Sounds like you are encasing them in a tomb of sorts.
Fish need sunlight like you do.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I hear ya. Just teasing you!

It's actually more fun the way we are doing it (small scale) No big pressure or some bean counter from the bank breathing down our necks.

Bell Aquaculture down here had now invested 60 million according to a source. Holy Moly!


I seriously doubt the 60 million story. They are not that big to have that much invested. Maybe a typo on your sources side.

Kinda like a fish story wink

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Hey Stan, your sure not wasting any time getting things done.

You could reduce suction at the opening of your 1&1/2" pipe by putting a T on it and also drill lots of holes into the T, then cover it in screening, this reduces the intake suction at any specific point and allows the screen to stay cleaner, also don't put the screen tight to the inlets on the T, I have done this to my 2" siphon inlets that supply water to my pond.

As long as you have some shade for the Trout that should keep the stress down on them.



What do you think of a manifold of sorts... Like 6-8 1/2" holes over the length of the deepest portion.

I plan on putting a deck over the pond with a 4x8 opening. Then building a small pole building over the whole platform. This will give them some hiding spaces. Protect them from birds and other critters. Also give a nice spot to feed them even in winter.

I just wanted to see how well fish do in it before the whole build out... It would be a PITA to find out something minor is wrong after a building is built.


What about photoperiod?
Sounds like you are encasing them in a tomb of sorts.
Fish need sunlight like you do.


So you think it will be too dark? I was under the impression they were farmed in barns and out buildings?

The walls of the small pole building will be wire with a solid roof only. Do you all think this will be fine or should I make the "deck" only on one side? Like 3' x 10' rather than a total walk around.

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I wouldn't worry about photoperiod unless you want to become an egg producer. Dark is good.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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They will grow and utilize feed much better if exposed to light.
Continuous dark "is not" good for growth!

Many studies on this subject, and I have yet to find one that says continuous dark is good.

In my control system. I have analog inputs and outputs. The 0-10V inputs will have photo sensors that measure light intensity. The 0-10V outputs will control 6500K fluorescent lights with analog ballasts. This will allow me to program and control all aspects of light conditions.

I will also have photo sensors measuring and recording outdoor light conditions every 60 seconds 24/7. I can pick any day of the year and play it back inside the building, should I choose to. (We actually do this in customers office environments) Make the shortest day of the year outside into the longest day of the year inside. This is way beyond fish rearing, but it is all about productivity. You get the idea.

Obviously, no artificial lighting system can effectively duplicate the intensity of the sun.

Cecil should know that fish get spooked when you just flip on a light switch. An analog ballast is basically a dimmer ballast. Even the best ones have a "click to on" starting point using a dimmer switch. Because these usually use a dimmer switch, there has to be a point above 0V in the 0-10V output to make them work. My boss has created some circuitry in front of the ballasts (Phillips make the best ones) that eliminates this "click to on" point utilizing analog outputs from a PLC or other true analog device, so they truly go from 0-10V.

People who raise fish in buildings (people who want to increase profits) utilize light (photoperiod) manipulation as part of their overall protocol. It is not just for broodstock or hatchery phase, but overall optimization of final product output, with controlled inputs.

Hope I did not bore you smile

Last edited by JKB; 04/21/12 09:01 AM.
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I know what the books say but in practice most of the RAS facilities that are still around, I have toured, keep it dark, so dark in fact, your eyes have to adjust to the darkness.

I'm aware what they say about day length being important for growth but I think it's minor compared to optimum oxygen, low NH4 and NH3, optimum temps, PH, and feed levels.

I just don't buy into it as being that big of a deal. I know if I had a choice I would take low light levels over the opposite any day.

That said, if you've ever tried to shut out light completely in a building it's a very difficult thing to do. Light gets into a facility very easily.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/21/12 09:40 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Missed the point!

It is all about control, and maintaining it, based on individual assessed and defined protocol.

Not something Stan would be interested in.

I would bet that the facilities you toured are wrong! Seriously wrong!

They have to keep cost's down by not running lights, or having effective control systems.

This is getting way out of the realm.

No biggie tho! People do, based on finances, manipulate outcome to suit their situation, and justify as fact to others.

It is called life!

Like I said, no biggie wink

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JKB,

We'll just have to agree to disagree but I can tell you that I've toured enough facilities to know what the academics say you should do is not always practical. And even the academics disagree with each other what is optimum.

I still say lighting is insignificant if all the other parameters are in place, and in fact less light is better. Reduced stress, better for the bacteria, no algae issues, etc. etc. You can also subdue the spawning urge with reduced lighting which is a waste of energy if you just want to grow out the fish.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Interesting discussion gentlemen, but Stan said his building would have a solid roof with wire fencing for the walls.



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As I said Cecil, No big deal!

I am sure we will have to agree to disagree in the future also laugh

I have a motto:
"Here's to you, and here's to me! If we ever disagree, %$@*& you, and here's to me!" laugh laugh laugh grin wink

With just a few fish in a hobby setup. I doubt there would be a significant impact. First off, you would never notice the difference, because you would not have anything to compare it to. Therefore a mute point!

That said, time to do some wiring and programming! grin wink


BTW: The photoperiod and studies I am referring to are in reference to raising Trout. Not other species.

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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Interesting discussion gentlemen, but Stan said his building would have a solid roof with wire fencing for the walls.


Understood AP, but look before the fact!

I like Stan's overall approach.

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