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Originally Posted By: JKB
AP> Along with Arctic Charr!

Illegal in MI tho frown


LOL, I thought of them as well.... But the trout will be easier to get. From what I gather tho Char are more tolerant of less quality water. But they need it cold cold cold...

Last edited by Stanb999; 04/01/12 02:43 PM.
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You might be surprised!

Brookies will be your most fussiest on water quality, all parameters included.

Arctic Charr are second on my list after Coho for cold water app's.

I just did not google that either shocked wink wink wink

Last edited by JKB; 04/01/12 12:48 PM.
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How's that raceway coming?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Well, after your suggestion I went back and did the pipe better. I have it sealed to just a trickle getting by. Seems the flow is between 20 and 30 gallons a min. A bit of rain picks it up almost right away.. Then it slowly drops off. I will still figure the tank by 10 GPM so if it falls in a bad drought I'm still good.

I bought the book, it came, I read it. grin I will be able to make a tank and have it work real well for raising trout.

Things decided...
Tank size 1200-1500 gallon. At this size the water changes every few hours even at low flow.

Tank will be built in a small shed. This will make winter easier to deal with. It will keep the sun off the water (algae). It will also make it easier to keep out predators.

Current dilemma's

Tank construction.. Concrete block or Wood need the liner. The liner is not cheap. When you add the two costs it ends up very expensive.

Plywood with Epoxy and fibreglass. No liner needed. should be ok in a shed. Difficult to work with tho.

Buy a large stock tank. Not cheap, needs fittings and such, not the right size. They are wide but very shallow.

I'm currently thinking the plywood and epoxy will be the best method. But I'm open to ideas.



Last edited by Stanb999; 04/11/12 04:15 AM.
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If none of the vendors on here have a liner that fits your budget, check on e-bay. There are liner remnants on there pretty reasonably priced. I bought one a few years ago to make an ornamental "stream". Still gotta get a roundtuit.....


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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How about this for the inside of a plywood raceway? It's long enough for a 16 foot raceway that is 2 feet deep up to 5 feet across. $100.00 would do it. On sale until the 15th.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-mat...g/p-1382672.htm

If you want to go the route of a circular stock tank you many be able to find one really cheap on Craig's List. Sometimes people just want to get rid of them. Plastic would be better but if you have to paint something with an epoxy AES's Sweetwater primer and paint would be the way to go. You could also use it in lieu of a liner.

I use a stock tank that I have elevated on concrete blocks for one of my RAS tanks.



No offense to some of the aquaculture suppliers but their mark ups are shameful, and when they tell you the above liner is not safe for fish it's an outright misrepresentation. The ones I bought from Menards have printed in white lettering: "Safe for aquatic use."

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/12/12 08:12 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
How about this for the inside of a plywood raceway? It's long enough for a 16 foot raceway that is 2 feet deep up to 5 feet across. $100.00 would do it. On sale until the 15th.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-mat...g/p-1382672.htm



To the nearest store.. Per google.

406 mi (about 6 hours 43 mins) frown

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I changed back to my original plans. The spring is only 40 ft or so long with a vertical drop of about 24". In order to get the tank installed I'd have had to dig anyway. So the digging wasn't "extra". Next due to the fact that the soil is sand with a bit of silt 5% and clay 8%(per jar test) the bottom should be easy to maintain as a pebbly brook like setting.

I built a small earth dam about a foot tall and dug down about 18" For a max depth of 30" or so. The deep area is near the centre with a 4" drain pipe. This area is about 5' or so in diameter. The next step up averages 20" in depth. This area is about 8' in diameter. Lastly the whole thing is about 9'X12' with a min depth of about 14".

Drains and "dredging".
The 4" drain seems to keep up fine. It drains the spring from full pool in about 5 mins. It takes the spring about an hour to fill the pool. The 4" pipe will suck the water from the top of the water and set it's depth. (Should I use a siphon instead and take from the bottom?) I will be putting in a "emergency" spillway with the 6" pipe. But never expect it to be used.
Dredging..

I will be attaching a "T" fitting. It will go from the 4" to 1 1/4" on this I will attach a ball valve and a section of flexible sump hose. I will use this to "vacuum" the pool bottom periodically.

Next steps...

I will be adding soil to the dam to make it more substantial (Now it's just a big mud pie, lol) and adding boards to make a "deck" frame. I plan on putting the boards in place first. Attaching hardware cloth to it. Then burying the wire in soil. This is to keep out digging critters. Do you think it will be OK to leave the water go through the wire? I know what they say about galvanised . But it's a tiny amount with lots of water.


On to the deck frame I will build a deck and small pole building. In the deck I plan on leaving a 4'x8' hole. The sides and roof of the pole building will be tin. I was thinking I should also make one or two of the roof panels plastic so light shines in some... Do you think they need more?


P.S. My friend the Blue Heron was at the pond today again. That JERK!

Last edited by Stanb999; 04/13/12 05:22 AM.
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A bit of a transformation...

Here is the exact shot of what was.



Now...





A few more.






Yes I've been busy the last two days. smile


P.S. this was done with a shovel and a back.

Last edited by Stanb999; 04/13/12 05:36 PM.
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My patented spring water aerator... It's made of PA Blue stone. The actual value of the stones from what I understand is 12 dollars a piece. This uses 5... So for 60 dollars... You get.




P.S. Want some? I'll trade 4 pallets of stone per hour with a track loader... You stack! laugh

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Stan your really going to town on this project, you mentioned putting hardware cloth inside, are you still going to put a liner in it?



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No, it holds water well. I found hard pan just below the level of the muck, stones and grass from the creek. It's a strange mix of clay/silt/sand and small stones. I would put it close to 2A modified. But the fines are much smaller. It ends up kinda putty like after it's moved. Digging in to it tho shows how it's really more like concrete. So it should be a "hard" bottom.

The hardware cloth will be the next step. I plan to attach it to the 2X6 all the way around. Then burying it in the soil several inches. The purpose is to keep out critters that would "dig" a trout meal. The stone will go about half way up the board and cover the whole mess.

The wife is very pleased with the stone wall look over that of a tank. We like to keep a rustic look... Tho some times some would say it's just rusty. LOL

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It looks good and I hope it works well, question I have is will the dirt walls add sediment that will cloud the water?

Good luck and keep posting photo's.

Last edited by adirondack pond; 04/13/12 08:10 PM.


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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
It looks good and I hope it works well, question I have is will the dirt walls add sediment that will cloud the water?

Good luck and keep posting photo's.


The soil doesn't really could up much. Even if I'm in their digging for instance and the water looks like milk. In an hour it will totally clear. The particles aren't clay, it's silt. Kinda naturally clear.

for those in the mid-west or south with clay...
Imagine stirring and digging in the "muck" of your pond. In 2 hours it's as clear as well water. No haze what so ever. 2 feet looks like 6 inches. Course my dam's are never like a "bucket".

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Stan,

Are you sure it's not more sand then you realize? Sand settles very quickly but looks like silt when it's wet.

Looks good Stan. I assume this is how you are sequestering the spring and the race way will be just down from it?

Have you picked anything up from the book Small Scale Aquaculture?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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No I think you misunderstand. This will be the"raceway" type tank. In the book the fellow with the nice stone walls in NEPA... he is down hill from me.... like 1500 ft, lol. In fact most of the selections in the book were they mention tanks are from my area, or just over the border in NY. Like less than 10 miles. I like the guy with the 3' deep 8 foot tank that grows a few hundred pounds a year in it. More than what I plan or need. My "tank" is that size with a 10X12 14" depth area added.

I haven't yet added the drain pipe extensions. In fact in the picture the pool is full with just a bit of weeds and a rock stuck in the out flow of the drain. I was checking to see if the frame was level (I figured you would want to watch the progress. So I took a couple pictures.) Just by eye it was less than a 1/2" off over all. Not too bad. I need to shim a bit. It's back down to 14" from the 30" it was in the picture. I want the walls built and full of soil prior to leaving it full.

I'm kinda thinking it will be more like a tank type system in that the water circulates then will drain from the center. It's just a sand/soil "tank". Not really a "raceway". I think it's the best of both worlds really. You get the circulation of a tank... With greater depth and size of a raceway. You should see the water swirl into the drain... It really gets moving.


P.S. I did the jar test on the soil. It is what it is. Really just (silty-sand loam) per all the charts.


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Looking good Stan!

You sure are making me look really lazy blush
I would not have the ambition to dig it with a shovel.

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Those sand slit loam charts also should have percentages if used correctly. Used some of them in a few of my classes.

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Originally Posted By: Stanb999
No I think you misunderstand. This will be the"raceway" type tank. In the book the fellow with the nice stone walls in NEPA... he is down hill from me.... like 1500 ft, lol. In fact most of the selections in the book were they mention tanks are from my area, or just over the border in NY. Like less than 10 miles. I like the guy with the 3' deep 8 foot tank that grows a few hundred pounds a year in it. More than what I plan or need. My "tank" is that size with a 10X12 14" depth area added.

I haven't yet added the drain pipe extensions. In fact in the picture the pool is full with just a bit of weeds and a rock stuck in the out flow of the drain. I was checking to see if the frame was level (I figured you would want to watch the progress. So I took a couple pictures.) Just by eye it was less than a 1/2" off over all. Not too bad. I need to shim a bit. It's back down to 14" from the 30" it was in the picture. I want the walls built and full of soil prior to leaving it full.

I'm kinda thinking it will be more like a tank type system in that the water circulates then will drain from the center. It's just a sand/soil "tank". Not really a "raceway". I think it's the best of both worlds really. You get the circulation of a tank... With greater depth and size of a raceway. You should see the water swirl into the drain... It really gets moving.


P.S. I did the jar test on the soil. It is what it is. Really just (silty-sand loam) per all the charts.


I do question how self cleaning your square raceway will be even with a center drain due to it not being round but square. You will have some "dead zones" and solids will collect there. Even rectangular raceways need to be scraped from time to time.

The difference in your system vs. the one in Van Gorder's book is yours is much smaller. The one in the book and my 1/10th acre pond have enough bottom area to act as a biofilter and sediment collector with a relatively low density of fish.

I'm not saying what you have won't work but you would have been better off with a narrow raceway or circular tank for the quicker removal of ammonia, settleable and suspended solids. Your design will stifle the pounds per gallon of fish you can raise.

On the other hand if you just want to raise a few fish and don't have any desire down the road to add more you may be fine.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/14/12 10:14 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Yeah, I figure it will be harder to clean. In that I really will need to treat it like a tank. I will add fish. Grow them out. Harvest in one batch.... Rinse and repeat.

I don't figure it will hold many at all long term. More likely a growing season.



If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.

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Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Yeah, I figure it will be harder to clean. In that I really will need to treat it like a tank. I will add fish. Grow them out. Harvest in one batch.... Rinse and repeat.

I don't figure it will hold many at all long term. More likely a growing season.



If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


If you go that route you might be able to find a significant artesian well by just drilling with no pumping needed. That's the ulimiate as there are no pumping costs and you flow everything via gravity. Or worst case scenario find one that does not produce the water significantly artesian but shallow pumping could increase it substantially.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy

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Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


If you could raise large amounts of SMB that's where the money would be, of course dealing with the government really puts a crimp on small businesses.
I was interested in getting some SMB for my pond but an upstate hatchery here wants a dollar an inch for 4" smallies, that would be expensive fish food if you had any predators.
Looks like it's back to hook and line stocking, smallmouth season opens the middle of June. grin

Last edited by adirondack pond; 04/14/12 04:55 PM.


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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: Stanb999
Yeah, I figure it will be harder to clean. In that I really will need to treat it like a tank. I will add fish. Grow them out. Harvest in one batch.... Rinse and repeat.

I don't figure it will hold many at all long term. More likely a growing season.



If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


If you go that route you might be able to find a significant artesian well by just drilling with no pumping needed. That's the ulimiate as there are no pumping costs and you flow everything via gravity. Or worst case scenario find one that does not produce the water significantly artesian but shallow pumping could increase it substantially.


The issue here isn't so much water availability. A few hundred gallons a min leaves my actual pond. It's the start of a stream. The real issue is the pond is at the lowest level of the property... Of course the water is at the bottom. LOL

Then the land rises 10' or so feet to a few; like 2-3 acre flat'ish area. I would need to pump the thing more than 15' but less than 20' vertical. Not a big deal but for a few hundred gallons a min. It will take some horse power anyway.

I even thought of an area up by the road to put in a fish and pay pond.. Tourists!


Farming go big or keep it a hobby.

Last edited by Stanb999; 04/14/12 08:09 PM.
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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Stanb999

If this works out well and I like actually raising them. I may just get a pump, dig a well and go commercial. With a closed system I could produce tons a year with this clean mountain water.


Getting a bit ahead of yourself now! crazy


Just Ideas.. Got to do something while watching a pond fill and keeping the beer from getting warm. grin

Last edited by Stanb999; 04/14/12 08:11 PM.
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