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#285903 - 03/28/12 09:07 PM Condello BG
Tree Farmer Offline


Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 84
Loc: Virginia
Ok, a post recommended that I stock Condello BG. I recall seeing a post recently with giant pics of such BG, but seemed like the owner couldn't sell them. Is there a source for these?

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#285910 - 03/28/12 10:15 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: Tree Farmer]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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I think Bruce Condello does.

If Bruce isn't, I'd sell you some Condello/Baird cross bluegills that perform just as well thanks to Bruce's work, but I'd have to spend a small fortune getting them health tested for VHS to ship them out of state.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (03/28/12 10:17 PM)
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#285913 - 03/28/12 10:34 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: Cecil Baird1]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Tree Farmer, can we get more info about your pond? What are your goals for it and what management practices you are practicing? Feeding, aeration, etc... I am not down playing fish genetics, they certainly are a factor. However, it's my opinion they are not the biggest factor by far... Other things such as proper food sources, good water quality, etc have a bigger factor in growing large bluegill, if that is even your primary goal.
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#285917 - 03/28/12 10:46 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: CJBS2003]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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Them fish are not easy to get.. smile
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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#285920 - 03/28/12 11:19 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Bruce Condello Offline
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I am working on it AS WE SPEAK! smile

Genetics are a really big factor!
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#285922 - 03/29/12 12:28 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
esshup Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Them fish are not easy to get.. smile


Sure they are! Just drive to Nebraska and help TJ seine his pond. Then beat feet for home. grin
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#285923 - 03/29/12 12:33 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: esshup]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Come on out. Have 1,000,000 for sale.
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#285939 - 03/29/12 07:15 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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At this time.. All I'm good for is moral support..

YOU CAN DO IT GUYS!!!!!!!!!

Then send some my way lol smile
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#285940 - 03/29/12 07:45 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
NCMike Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 105
Loc: NC
So would these BG specimin do well in an Aquaphonics setup?

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#285946 - 03/29/12 08:32 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: NCMike]
esshup Offline
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Yes they will. Cecil has some in a tank right now.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#286024 - 03/29/12 11:30 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: esshup]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Yes they will. Cecil has some in a tank right now.


Both Bruce and I have had no problem with them in tanks. I also have some in cages at the present time until I can sex them. The only time I've had problems is keeping large specimens in cages that were never in cages before, which is understandable with any fish. I had beat up pec fins which may have meant they were fighting. It was also a low density cage so they probably became territorial.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (03/30/12 11:50 AM)
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#286025 - 03/29/12 11:32 PM Re: Condello BG [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Can someone show me genetics are anywhere near as important as food source/supply and habitat? I am betting they can't...

You can have the greatest genetics ever, but if you have poor conditions they will never be expressed. It's a basic principle in the management of almost any animal. You see it with whitetail deer too... You could have a buck with the greatest farm raised pedigree genes ever. However, if he lives on a crappy range his whole life where he's half starved, he'll be lucky to eeek out a 100 class rack. You put some run of the mill none pedigree bucks into high quality range, you're going to see some nice bucks. Sure, you'll have some duds... But, if you don't have good range, it doesn't matter how great the genes are.
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#286046 - 03/30/12 04:12 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: CJBS2003]
NCMike Offline


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 105
Loc: NC
I dont think anyone is saying genetics are the only thing that matters but if you are willing to manage the fish to try to maximize the size, then yes genetics play a huge roll.

I look at it this way you have 4 options:

1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish

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#286054 - 03/30/12 05:48 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: NCMike]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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It takes both. Genes are a slippery slope unless you KNOW the history of all ancestors. There are genes, recessive genes, etc.

But, you're right about proper nutrition.
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#286057 - 03/30/12 07:02 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: CJBS2003]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Can someone show me genetics are anywhere near as important as food source/supply and habitat? I am betting they can't...

You can have the greatest genetics ever, but if you have poor conditions they will never be expressed. It's a basic principle in the management of almost any animal. You see it with whitetail deer too... You could have a buck with the greatest farm raised pedigree genes ever. However, if he lives on a crappy range his whole life where he's half starved, he'll be lucky to eeek out a 100 class rack. You put some run of the mill none pedigree bucks into high quality range, you're going to see some nice bucks. Sure, you'll have some duds... But, if you don't have good range, it doesn't matter how great the genes are.

I'm not losing or gaining any money out of these statements... If someone who has money to gain would like to show scientifically that a proper management program is not far more important and the first steps that should be taken in managing for large bluegill, I'd love to see it.


I guess I'm trying to figure out who you're arguing against here. Does anybody on this forum dispute the need for good management?

And if you're implying the someone here is trying to "make money" by saying all you need is good genetics, then you've never read a single thing I've posted on this forum. I haven't sold a single fish in nearly five years, and have invested tens of thousands of dollars trying to improve the genetics in my fish stock. So where are we going with this? I've reviewed this thread over and over again, and I still haven't found the quote where somebody says all you need is good genetics.


Edited by Bruce Condello (03/30/12 07:17 AM)
Edit Reason: Toned it down a little.
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#286058 - 03/30/12 07:02 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: NCMike]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Originally Posted By: NCMike
I dont think anyone is saying genetics are the only thing that matters but if you are willing to manage the fish to try to maximize the size, then yes genetics play a huge roll.

I look at it this way you have 4 options:

1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish


Nicely stated. Excellent.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#286060 - 03/30/12 07:32 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: CJBS2003]
JamesBryan Offline


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 475
Loc: N.W. Missouri
I was once told, after making a claim to have caught a "huge" fathead minnow, on a #10 hook, that it was next to impossible for a fathead to get big enough to take a hook that size.

Is the limiting factor here a genetic one, or a management one?
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#286062 - 03/30/12 07:52 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: JamesBryan]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Both. There are many limiting factors in growing big fish. Oxygen, genetics, food amounts, food quality, social factors, even water itself. Any one of which can place limitations on a fish's potential.
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#286063 - 03/30/12 08:11 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Bruce Condello]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Maybe part of it comes down to one's goals, and expectations. I've stated here before that I believe size is relative to location. I think we would all agree that a 3 lb. Bluegill is an exceptionally large fish. In some locales however, a 1 lb. Bluegill is considered huge. It would appear to me that if growing a 3 lber was the goal, then genetics would probably assume a much greater importance than it would with a 1 lb. fish.

Also, what kinds of numbers are involved? We all know that there will be that exceptional fish in every year class of Bluegills. The one that has everything going for it. I think that's where state record fish come from. But, if you're wanting a large quantity of a particular year class of fish to achieve trophy status, (say over 2 lbs.), then I would expect to source fish with the best genetics I could find.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#286064 - 03/30/12 08:30 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: esshup]
Tree Farmer Offline


Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 84
Loc: Virginia
I have a new pond (the happy side of me calls it a majestic lake) that we just capped two days ago. It will be two acres at full pond, and has two springs feeding it from above the full pool level at a rate of about 40 gallons per minute combined. It will be 20' deep along the dam, and average depth of 8-10'. It has some great rock ledges on one side, lots of nice boulders, etc. The spring water flowing in is crystal clear, and due to the way the lake was made I think I will be able to actually create some waterfalls from it before it enters the lake. The lake also has a 25 acre drainage area...all mountainous, and I own to to the top of the mountain, so I shouldn't have to worry about activities uphill disturbing the lake.

The official goal of the lake is to support agricultural operations below the lake through irrigation. Ancillary goals are to have a place where the family can have fun through fishing and swimming (in that order). As for fishing, I don't care about having huge LMB. I would like to have large BG, but I would rather have many good sized BG than a few behemoths. One of the reasons I'm not so big on huge LMB is that I'm not real big on catch and release...like someone else on the board, I like to release em to the grease! I also love RES (tasty) and CC (tastier). I will do HSB if I can get approval from the marine folks (an utterly stupid rule here in VA).

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#286065 - 03/30/12 08:36 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Tree Farmer]
Tree Farmer Offline


Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 84
Loc: Virginia
OK guys, I started typing the post above yesterday and finished it this morning, before reading the argument about genetics/management. I do intend to properly manage the lake, and as I said many fish will become crispy brown each week/year. One thing I left out above is that I understand that for my general goals it sounds like I would be better served by having a lot of 10-14" LMB...sounds great to me, as LMB around the upper end of that size fry up quite nicely as well! We have a large family, and they all love a great fish fry!

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#286076 - 03/30/12 09:34 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Tree Farmer]
Tree Farmer Offline


Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 84
Loc: Virginia
I also plan to feed the CC, the BG, and the HSB

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#286080 - 03/30/12 09:59 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bullhead Offline

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Registered: 03/16/09
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Loc: Cornhusker state
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Come on out. Have 1,000,000 for sale.


I'll take 500.

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#286081 - 03/30/12 10:10 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Tree Farmer]
Bill Cody Offline
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Do CNBG survive long term in VA? Those with experience? Tree Farmer do you know the plant growing zone for the area around your pond? With your fish harvest plans I wonder if BG would survive long enough to make to trophy status? It would take good co-operation of all anglers.

Speaking of fast growing large BG: FYI - North Central Regional Aquaculture Center is advertising for proposals for a 2 year study to "Develop Genetically Fast Growing Monosex Male Populations in Bluegill Sunfish". Their goal is to improve growth rate, eliminate the problem of prolific reeproduction, precocious maturity and their consequences. They propose this be done through selective breeding to produce monosex populations. They therorize that combining super male germoplasm with performance selected female lines should produce quality offspring. They want populations raised at two or more locations. Grant money will be $160,000 for this project (USDA funded). Results are to be published. Hopefully this will provide knowledge for growing bigger and better BG.


Edited by Bill Cody (03/30/12 10:25 AM)
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#286098 - 03/30/12 11:10 AM Re: Condello BG [Re: Bill Cody]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Speaking of fast growing large BG: FYI - North Central Regional Aquaculture Center is advertising for proposals for a 2 year study to "Develop Genetically Fast Growing Monosex Male Populations in Bluegill Sunfish". Their goal is to improve growth rate, eliminate the problem of prolific reeproduction, precocious maturity and their consequences. They propose this be done through selective breeding to produce monosex populations. They therorize that combining super male germoplasm with performance selected female lines should produce quality offspring. They want populations raised at two or more locations. Grant money will be $160,000 for this project (USDA funded). Results are to be published. Hopefully this will provide knowledge for growing bigger and better BG.


Wow they are only 10 years behind Bruce !! Bruce you need to give them a call - might be able to sell them a few fish and a lot of knowledge.

I think NCMike hit the nail on the head when he said :
1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish

A little more. No 1 is the most common and is reflected in most studies indicating that the biggest limiting factor in fish growth and condition in ponds is lack of food. It is very common in the overall populace but not among the people on this Forum. No 2 is IMO rare but does happen. No 3 is what the avg person with some knowledge of fisheries mgt and the desire to work some at having a nice place to fish has. No 4 is not common yet but many would like to move toward. Among people here it is much more common and a lot of us are striving to get there.

You canít get to 3 without what CJ notes and you canít stay at 3 or get to 4 without what Bruce notes.

I will remind again that the term ďgood/greatĒ genetics must be viewed in the context of the environment into which the fish go. I have some very good CNBG genes in my ponds. They would not IMO be good genes to go into Tree Farmerís pond. Even with good mgt they likely would result in exhibiting bad results and lower fitness for him. Good genes can be bad in the wrong place. They would make his existing genetics worse over time. A much better way for Tree Farmer to get to 4 would be , as I noted in a prior post , plenty of mgt and Condello genetics. Why not shoot for 4 from the start. More importantly donít make it next to impossible to get to 4 or even 3 by degrading your pond with the wrong genes.
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