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Thank you for the encouragement and information. Have you been enjoying your selective breeding experiments? I hope they are fruitful for you.

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It's been interesting, hopefully my selected offspring from 2010 with spawn some fast growers this summer, maybe I'll live long enough to see good results. laugh
I didn't make the filter for my RAS, I was lucky enough to find a used bubble bead filter from someone who was getting a bigger one for their Koi pond. Craigs list comes in handy.




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You guys are doing some impressive stuff.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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AP. Is the RAS just for holding them over? Or, are you breeding them in tank?

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The RAS is just for the cold months, Oct. thru April, they go out to the backyard mini pond in May where I have small spawning tubs filled with sand and gravel for them.
I also have weighted pvc pipes with artificial garland attached to give the fry some cover.




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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
JKB,

If they go on feed right away the only problem I would see is keeping them out of the drain but removing waste efficiently at the same time.



That is why I mentioned that there is more to it than barrels wink


Oh it's another one of your "secrets" right? wink

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/17/12 09:52 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Not a secret, just common sense.

You simply put an insert, like one of those deep fryer baskets that they make french fries in, except it is a tighter mesh into one of the barrels where all the Love is happening. After several weeks, dump them into another barrel and let them grow, then start again.

You are not the best plumber, so I am sure all of your standing stock would be sucked out the bottom! grin Just kidding! smile

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I guess you haven't personally experienced the frustration of small mesh just fine for keeping the fry in but also the solids and quickly clogging the fine mesh due to the tremendous amount the fry eat and expel. This can lead to bacterial gill disease or worse D.O. and ammonia issues. I've already found some things look good on paper but in practice can be otherwise. grin

No, plumbing is not my forte, but I get by. smirk

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/18/12 02:56 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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You should be OK with a 1000 to 1500 micron stainless mesh.

Solid sides with perforated sheet for the bottom would also work. It will help in keeping the feed suspended longer with a diffuser under the insert. You would need to perforate or screen the top for outflow. Good idea, just how much flow is needed? Got me hanging! Maybe a combo of lightly perforated sides and a hole filled bottom.
Sounds like a WE feed training rig to me laugh

I made such a basket out of 50 micron filter material. That was not a good choice, but was just testing. The water inside obviously got dirty, while the water outside was pretty polished and clean. Hey, I had the stuff and thought I would give it a try. It's OK for a couple of days, and that is about it.

I also made one from vinyl coated aluminum window screen, and that worked. Not much buildup to speak of. I did not spend the time and make a wire frame for it, so it was kinda flimsy. Just experiments. Duct tape was also employed.

There is a lot more to this. The barrel rig should work just fine.

"On Paper", I call them Cartoon's, because sometimes they are funny laugh

Anyway, enjoy your projects!

None of us think the same way, and that is beneficial to everyone!

Last edited by JKB; 03/18/12 11:03 AM.
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Speaking of stainless steel mesh. Has anyone here made anything like one of these?

http://www.newenglandkoi.com/Cetus-Sieve/Cetus-Sieve-Gravity-Fed-p-494.html

They are stupidly expensive but from what I can tell they are about as good (easy) as it gets for low maintenance solids removal. I was thinking about getting some 200-300 micron screen and making something like that to strip the solids before the water goes into the bio-filter.

Thoughts?

Edit:
I first saw the sieve in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS3UdYphk9I&feature=related

This guy has a pretty wild setup. Far more elaborate than I am planning.

Last edited by DMRBG; 03/18/12 01:37 PM.
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You would be stupidly wasting your money!

This solids filter was originally invented in Germany when the Big RAS, Hey just throw fish in water boom was happening.

I am surprised it actually survived, but this seems to be a much smaller knockoff. AES use to sell the originals. I see they have a few models for Koi ponds. Looks like they found a market.

200 to 300 microns - were going back a very long time!

Filter techniques for aquaculture have advanced a bit in the past 20 years. Tilapia can tolerate poorer water quality than most other fish, therefore better filtration is needed for other species.

Last edited by JKB; 03/19/12 04:31 AM.
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Originally Posted By: JKB
200 to 300 microns - were going back a very long time!


I'm not sure I'm following. Why would it be a bad idea to screen the larger particles out before going into the main filters? I expect it would decrease the frequency with which you would have to clean the main filter media.

Sorry if these are stupid questions... I just saw it in action and though; Wow, that would be easier to clean than the filter media inside of a barrel (hopefully effectively decreasing the frequency with which the barrel filter must be torn apart and sprayed out).

Edit: Just to be clear, I would never spend a grand on a glorified screen and barrel but I would be willing to make one with some cheaper nylon mesh, barrel, Lexan, and aquarium silicon for $150-200 or so if it made the system more maintainable.

Edit2: While his design has some flaws, I can appreciate the cleanliness of his fabrication. I don't know why he is using aquariums which are probably about the most expensive kind of tank you can get but I like his use of IBCs which is something I have been considering as well.

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What are the main filters?

All I saw was some wadded up netting wrapped into a ball as a biofilter. Ain't gonna happen! No Way, No How!

You will eventually get it smile

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It is your world to experience and enjoy.

All anyone can offer is a few foot steps.

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I am not trying to be rude so please excuse me if it comes across as such.

What I am seeing is fragments of thoughts and not guidance or footsteps...

As far as what you see... What you see in my photos (if that's what you are taking pot shots at) are the very beginnings of a clarifier with some bio filtration capabilities that are modeled after Cecil's system which has already proven its self and is by no means intended to be the sole means of filtration. If you look through the rest of the thread again you can see more information on Cecil's system that included a RBC which is also used. If you look even further you will see that my total fish weight is intended to be extremely low (18 or so medium sunfish).

Cecil is already using a variation of this system to filter a much larger tank with many more fish without the extra solids screen (to my knowledge he is not using one) which I am thinking about adding for the convenience of not having to spray out the mesh as frequently which I believe will also help maintain a more stable beneficial bacteria population.

So... Please explain your comment to me because I fail to see how adding a solids screen to a proven method takes it from proven to "Ain't gonna happen! No Way, No How!".

Last edited by DMRBG; 03/18/12 03:43 PM.
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On an important side note:

I would very much like to keep the tone of this thread positive, constructive and educational. Please try to keep with that spirit while posting.

Thank you.

Last edited by DMRBG; 03/18/12 03:46 PM.
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Originally Posted By: DMRBG
On an important side note:

I would very much like to keep the tone of this thread positive, constructive and educational. Please try to keep with that spirit while posting.

Thank you.


Likewise DMRBG and I think we are doing O.K. so far. You have to understand JKB is an engineer and I think he is just humoring you. He does that me all the time! Engineers always think they are the smartest people in the room and they usually are.

Just remind him when you get fish in your system that yours is no longer a idea in your head. grin Believe me there is a difference. Even in the finest designed systems Murphy's Law applies. And although it's a trite expression, the more complicated a system is the more things that can go wrong really applies to RAS'. At a recent aquaculture meeting Dr. VanGorder was telling us about some of the most expensive and well designed systems he has seen that ended almost as soon as they started.

I'm no engineer and my philosophy is the KISS principal. My system is not complex, but it gets the job done for what it's designed for, which is bringing in fish for the winter to get a few more inches on them.

Please direct any questions you have to me and I'll be happy to answer them the best I can. However I must warn you I am still learning, but I'm having a blast doing so.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/18/12 10:03 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: DMRBG
On an important side note:

I would very much like to keep the tone of this thread positive, constructive and educational. Please try to keep with that spirit while posting.

Thank you.


Likewise DMRBG and I think we are doing O.K. so far. You have to understand JKB is an engineer and I think he is just humoring you. He does that me all the time! Engineers always think they are the smartest people in the room and they usually are.


Hey, you want me to cross-examine him?! laugh


Todd La Neve

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Oh I forgot lawyers can convince people they are the smartest in the room! grin

Nah no need to. wink


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Well, we may not be able to convince people we're the smartest, but we are often successful at making others look like they're the dumbest! grin (Just messin'!)


Todd La Neve

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Originally Posted By: Todd3138
Well, we may not be able to convince people we're the smartest, but we are often successful at making others look like they're the dumbest! grin (Just messin'!)


Oh no, all the people I know that are lawyers, including a girl I dated that graduated Harvard Law are smart cookies. Eric is no dummy and of course you're not. Myself, not sure I could have made it through law school. Same goes for med school.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Some can make the grade, but like any profession, there are exceptions! You don't give yourself enough credit, my friend.


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I am sorry, I must have missed something. The way it read was that the deer netting was your biofilter. Cecil uses his deer netting as a pre filter. Big difference. 200 to 300 microns going into a submerged static biofilter is not the best plan. You will want to tighten that up a bit. I suggested a simple bag filter as a pre filter. I would choose that over the netting, why? they are cost effective, simple and work. You can get them in any micron rating and they come in many FDA compliant flavors. Plus, they are easy to clean.

HVAC filters often contain unwanted chemicals such as fire retardants. Be careful if you select one of them.

Microscreen filters are a great thing. Depends on how much money you want to spend, not just on components, but operational costs as well.

Back in the 90's, everybody and their brothers were out to invent a better mouse trap. Some of the stuff was pretty neat, a lot of it was also impractical or it never worked and was actually sold to consumers. I especially liked one companies take on fish harvesting. The tanks were circular and had a liner. When you wanted to harvest or grade your fish, you simply pumped air under the liner. It blew up like a balloon and all the water and fish were directed into a channel. I wonder how many times you could blow one up before a failure occurred.

Many books were written. A lot of them are no longer in print.

The book Cecil mentioned by Steve VanGorder is a very good one. Simple and practical.

It sure would be interesting to hear the whole story about a new fish hatchery that was built in Alaska. I was talking to an employee there and they were a bit nervous because things were not going as smoothly as promised.

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Originally Posted By: Todd3138
Well, we may not be able to convince people we're the smartest, but we are often successful at making others look like they're the dumbest! grin (Just messin'!)


That is true, however I did make one lawyer look stupid in front of a circuit court judge. I don't think he did his homework relating to UL listing and field labeling requirements for equipment installations.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1

Just remind him when you get fish in your system that yours is no longer a idea in your head. grin Believe me there is a difference. Even in the finest designed systems Murphy's Law applies. And although it's a trite expression, the more complicated a system is the more things that can go wrong really applies to RAS'. At a recent aquaculture meeting Dr. VanGorder was telling us about some of the most expensive and well designed systems he has seen that ended almost as soon as they started.


Very true Cecil. Nothing like having your system up and running with fish present.

Many a fish farm bit the dust when they adapted RAS technology. One of the prevailing reasons according to Timmons, is that they just did not understand the technology they bought in to. Many other reasons to do with economics also. If you are just on the edge of making a profit and the utility companies hike your rate, so long!

My stuff is not overly complicated. Pretty basic really, except my future fish will be able to send me text messages grin

DMRGB:
Here is some sunfish info. You can download it free: Sunfish Culture Guide

Last edited by JKB; 03/19/12 04:40 AM.
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