Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Can a BG-LMB-CC 3/4 Acre Pond work?

3/4 surface acres and approximately 4 acre ft of water in East Texas. Just ordered 1000 CNBG and 2K FHM. We're picking them up on Thursday.

The fish hatchery said it's going to be REALLY, REALLY hard to have a blanced BG/LMB pond that small. I've heard this before and now I'm wondering if I should just change our plans up a bit...maybe try to have a "fun" pond for the kids instead of a perfect pond.

We have thought about some CC since we like to eat them. Instead of trying to have a well balanced perfect BG/LMB pond, shall we just stock less LMB this summer and throw in 50 or so CC to the mix on Thursday?

It hard to have a balanced pond BG/LMB pond. The CC will just mess up the BG/LMB combo. It all depends on your goals and what you wish to achieve.

I'd feed the fish if possible, and manage for large BG. Lots of smaller LMB for kids to catch. I have a heck of a time catching CC in my pond, and so does a neighbor. Unless you know a secret that I don't, I'd be leery. They are easier in higher concentrations, but I think stocking CC light = harder to catch more than 1 at a time.

I say large BG because in smaller BOW's, to get large LMB, there can only be a few.

Always such good advice on this forum! We ARE planning on implementing a feeding program, by the way. We are also considering adding a bit more cover than planned to help the BG.

So I should just ditch the thought of adding 50-100 CC in the mix and stick with the original BG/LMB idea? I should also accept the fact that I'm not going to have big LMB??

Essup, what's your definition of "lots of smaller bass"? At the end of the day this pond is for the kids, but I really like fishing for LMB......

I would ditch the CC. You could have big LMB but then you risk your BG stunted but feeding should help with that. Probably lots of bass in the 9-14" range.

how drought resistant will your pond be??

Also what else are you adding for forage, or does the feeding plan eliminate the desire for more bait?

My pond in IN is about one acre when full and about 3/4 acre at the end of summer when it has been rather dry. For a dozen years I had LMB, BG, CC, FHM, GC along with 20 KOI and 6 Israeli carp that died last year from winter kill. With the CC, KOI and Israeli carp I had perfect FA control. The CC had a mossy taste so we didn't eat them.

Hve you thought about Hybrid Striped Bass to go along with your CNBG?
Minimum structure/cover will allow HSB to control over population of CNBG - don't stock HSB until FHM turn the water black and HSB will be forage trained.
Begin feed program second year and then decide on LMB option.

Where in Texas? HSB require high alkalinity and hardness - lime often required in East Texas acidic water.
Good Luck

George provides a very good idea as an option that includes some HSB. Have you ever caught a HSB? Exciting! They are definately more fun than LMB. Once you catch one you will change your opinion of LMB.

HSB will not spawn in the pond which is a good feature. When you need more predation add more HSB; too much predation remove some HSB. You can always add the LMB later if the need arises and the LMB will soon dominate the fishery. If you like this idea ask about densities for HSB and CNBG. You can always decrease the number of CNBG that you orderered. George who has lots of experience with CNBG & HSB in TX can better advise you on numbers of each to stock in a 3/4 ac pond.
HSB homework:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92629#Post92629

14" and under. I'm not saying that all the LMB will be that size, but the majority will be. At the start, the LMB will grow larger than that, but as more and more LMB are in the pond, they will not get as big. My buddy feeds his fish, and wants large BG. We're taking out LMB that are 2#-4#, trying to keep the LMB population under 14".

You could keep a few larger ones in there, but they will get hook shy after a while. The larger the LMB, the fewer large BG you will have.

If you want to have a few large LMB in there, get a tagging kit from Greg Grimes, and tag say 10 of them. Any LMB over 14" that isn't tagged comes out, if it's tagged, it stays in.

Is it possible to be discouraged AND excited at the same time? I feel like I'm married to this pond. Will it always be this way?

George & BC, I have fished for HSB....that's something I never considered or even thought was a possibility. So the HSB will never spawn? You control their numbers/size by harvesting? Can a pond full of large BG co-exist with the HSB? Fascinating....

Essup, so a pond full of big BG and a bunch of <14" LMB would be the result in a smaller BOW? Would I delay the stocking of the LMB in the early summer to allow the BG to get even bigger or would I stick with the June stocking?

Sorry for all the questions....very valuable information and I thank you all.

Who are you getting the fish from? There are good people and bad people to work with in our area.

Yes. Welcome to your obsession.

Brian, Tyler Fish Farm is where we are getting the forage fish from. If we go with LMB we'll use them as well. If we go with HSB we'll get them from Overton.

No successful spawning of HSB - never reported to happen. You control numbers of HSB by put and take. Numbers to put and take should largely be determined by the structure of the BG population. Keep in mind that HSB do not eat as large of BG as LMB for HSB and LMB of same length due to smaller mouth size of HSB. Adult BG co-habitate well with HSB. As worst case condition in a pond as small as 3/4 ac, you could fairly easily manually remove some smaller BG by annually trapping and or seining of the over abundant size classes for example the 4"-6" size group. If there are no LMB in the pond you should be able to supplimentally stock smaller sizes of HSB compared to if larger LMB were in the pond to prey on any added 4"-6" HSB. When larger LMB are present, add stock HSB should be a minimum of 8"-10" to improve survival rate. IMO one should stock at least a few HSB every year so there are numerous size classes of HSB in the pond to eat various sizes of BG from 1" to 4".

Woke up this morning somewhat stressed about managing our small pond for BG/LMB and never really being able to make it work like a larger pond. I am now VERY excited about the prospects of us managing a BG/HSB pond!

Two great tasting fish. Both have realistic potential to reach max size. Great fighting predator. Easy to manage. Fun for the kids and adults. Is this the best kept secrect in small pond management or what?!?!

I'm at the luxury of starting from scratch with no LMB in the current pond. Knowing my pond size from my initial post and the fact that I will have 900 BG, 100 RES, and 2000 FHM come Thursday, what HSB stocking schedule should I follow?

You will have to manage the BG very intensively to produce quality BG with only HSB as a predator. Heed George's advice about minimal cover and no vegetation. Cover and vegetation will make it all that much more difficult for the HSB to successfully control your BG.

IMO consider changing the BG order to 300-500 RES: 500-700 BG. The hatchery should not have a problem with this. BG will always outpace the RES. The higher % of RES will IMO slightly reduce the chances of early overpopulation of BG. A strong population of RES is rarely ever a problem. The big negative to this IMO is the RES will not be regular pellet eaters and thus slightly slower growers compared to the CNBG. It has been speculated here that adult RES will eat small FHM <1" to maintain good growth rates. 500-700 BG should be more than adequate for a pond having primarily HSB as the only predators. Plus if you follow George's suggestion of "don't stock HSB until FHM turn the water black" (probably in spring 2013) fishery balance should work well for the first few years until lots of minnows are reduced and significant BG harvest is nececessary to keep remaining BG growing well.

I think you are going down the better path with the HSB instead of the LMB. It's easy to add LMB, but after that, turning back is impossible without starting all over.

I agree with Bill but would add if you are stocking small HSB (4-6 in.)you can do that next fall. Supp feeding will help.

Alright guys, tomorrow is the day we begin our project. I'm fired up! BG/RES/FHM tomorrow in our 3/4 acre pond. At some point we will begin a feeding schedule for the BG and at some point we will stock HSB. We do not have any intentions of adding LMB at any point....decision as been made to go for the HSB only.

I'm at the mercy of the HSB experts from this point forward. Please make my pond your project! Pictures and updates to come.....

George has been very successful with his stocking ladder approach with HSB. Pretty darn innovative.

Will someone please explain the technique of George's stocking ladder approach for HSB for JC03? JC03 plus other readers have probably not heard of this method.

I understand it but will contact George and let him lay it out.

I coined the phrase "Stocking Ladder" to explain program of restocking 8-10 inch HSB each fall, numbers harvested or lost previous year.

Program works really well to provide good classes of HSB each year for fantastic sport fishing and table fare.

B.Cody Comment- George, this is a very good stocking and management technique because it minics how nature works to maintain a good balance of both predator and prey, especially when dealing with non-spawning species. Nature usually has good ways of getting things done. Thanks for your input here.