Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Temporarily diverting a creek

I havent been able to find anything that I could decipher as a viable answer so here is the question:

If I have a property with a decent sized creek that runs through it, is it legal to "tap" into that creek to run a say 6" PVC pipe to a pond site (West Virginia if it makes a difference)? Basically put a gate valve and use the creek to fill and then top off the pond. Doesnt seem like it would be a problem as long as I didnt cut off or severely reduce the flow down the river but I know there are lots of rules about this kind of thing.

Mike, personally, I would tap it, but the rules in eastern watersheds get awfully bizarre.

Mike if the stream is running thru your property I would tap into it, I'm not saying it's legal, I don't know, but I have two 2" lines running from a stream on my property to the pond.

I'm lucky to be able to use a siphon gravity flow, a 2" pipe can deliver a lot of water especially if you use a pump.
If it wasn't for using water from my stream I wouldn't be able to have a pond.

Make sure to check into the Water Rights. If you're a part of the above ground water ownership, similar to those who have land on top of the underground aquifer, you have the entitlement obtain and retain a certain amount of water per month/year. Make sure to check with the local (county and state) regulations first. If they caught you siphon the water without proper pre-authorization, it could mean you'll be ending up with a $25,000 initial fine, follow by $10 per gallon after the initial 10,000 gallons, with the chance of also landing in prison for 5 years. Just covering your butt for you buddy.

Leo, you guys have some unbelievable laws in CA, but in any case it is a good idea to check the local laws although I doubt they are as restrictive as CA.

In my case I take my personal property rights seriously, and while the amount of water I siphon off from the stream in very small, the majority of the water flowing into the pond returns to the stream from the outflow.

When I lived out there, our sewer bill was computed on how many gallons of water went thru the meter. No credit was given for water that was used for irrigation. If I dropped a well on the place, it would be metered too.

I post this very reluctantly. Please don't turn this into a nasty political debate requiring us moderators to close this thread.

This is a very complex question that currently involves a friend, neighbor, and fellow WV Aquaculture Association member. Read this, and you may wonder why it is in the WV Supreme Court -- but it is:
Josh Hedricks on Appeal

West Virginia is one of the better places for minimal interference in property rights, but this really emphasizes the problems that one can encounter. Josh and his lovely wife have been going through hell over this for a couple of years now, and it has been extremely costly to them. It has really put all of us on alert.

Mike,

After I posted above, I realized that I did not answer the question about whether you can divert water from a West Virginia stream. In general, the answer is yes. Starting on page 12 of Landowners’ Rights and Responsibilities in West Virginia is a pretty good description of water (riparian) rights in West Virginia. Basically, you have reasonable use of the water, but you can't deprive those downstream of their reasonable use of the water.

Here is one example of something we've done at a nearby farm just over the ridge in Virginia. We pull water from a stream to fill three ponds.

This may look very level, but it drops in elevation by over 6 feet to the other side of the barn shown on the right.



Just below this concrete bridge, we have a catch basin similar to the one shown below, but larger. It has an 8-inch pipe connection.




We trenched to the other side of the barn, where the pipe flows into a settling pond that we built to catch and filter nutrients. The main pond was getting way too much runoff from the barns and paddocks. Grading was done to keep the nasty runoff water from entering the pond. The water from the stream became the primary water source for the main pond, and for a pond below the main pond that can't be seen in this photo. This allowed less fertile water to enter the pond, thus helping cut back on uncontrolled algae growth in the summer. This small pond has since been planted with water plants and koi. Because of the approximate 6-foot of head, we have a natural aeration system. A large ball-valve allows the water to be shut off if needed.





Water flows into the main pond, from the settling pond, and exits the main pond into a smaller pond that was excavated with a flat bottom to allow easy seining. The small pond is primarily intended as a brood pond. Last fall we put 100 2-3 inch redear sunfish in it. Hopefully, by early summer they will be big enough that we can seine them out, and put them in the main pond without fear of them being eaten by the bass. Then we'll start a new crop of something.



This photo shows the brood pond in relation to the main pond. The brood pond is on the right in the photo.



For perspective, the main pond is almost exactly football field size at about 3/4 acre. It is about 12-14 foot deep at the dam. The bottom of the brood pond is at least 20 feet below the bottom of the settlement pond, and over 25 feet lower than where the water is sampled from the stream.

Now that is slick!!

I was thinking the same thing, and maybe these pic should be archived or something for later use.. Nice setup Man..

I was incorrect in what I said above, about a football field. I'm not sure how I was so far off. But an American football field is about 1.3 acres, and not 0.75 acres.

Catmandoo, that is an amazing setup.

So with that setup you dont get many issues with runoff contaminating the main pond? How often do you have to "turn it on"?

Do the Koi have any issues with the cold?

Koi are extremely hardy. The main pond above, and my pond, both have koi that are many years old. They are just happy fish.

The only time my friends have shut off the water flow has been when we wanted to draw down the water to do maintenance and excavating.

So you guys constantly are replacing the water? DOes it flow out or evaporate/leak?

Most of the water in my pond returns to the stream from the outlet culverts.

If you return the water back to the creek after it went through your property, that is if you live in California, they would have put you on a skewer and roast you for so many regulations, it's not funny. Great to know that you guys are far away from such regulatory measures. California is dying for water right now. Water is as expensive as gasoline, if not more.

Leo you do live in a beautiful state, it's too bad that some people are screwing it up with over regulation and taxes, that's probably why people hire shady accountants like JHAP .
I have 2 daughters who live near Sacramento, one of them loves the state and the other one can't wait to leave when she's done with college.

I can understand the problems some states have with water shortages but the Adirondacks are blessed with an abundance of water, one of the main factors being people aren't allowed to lay waste to the forest and the paper companies which are a big employer practice sustainable forestry.

In upstate NY we're holding the line against the metropolitan crazies, but if the time comes were they put a meter on my own water well and try to control my water rights then I'm gone.

Looking forward to your input as an environmental scientist.

Yes, the water does go back into the stream. And, yes, we are constantly replacing the water.

At my pond, I have water flowing in from a couple of ridges, and it goes out of the overflow. This happens about nine months out of the year. During late July, August, and September I am usually somewhat below full-pool. At that time I can expect to lose and inch or two per week to evaporation and percolation. This is our seventh season with this pond. I don't think I've seen it get more than 18 inches below full pool.

We too are very fortunate to have a significant amount of good water in West Virginia. Even during "severe" droughts, we still manage to suck some water out of the passing clouds that scrape against our mountain tops. Just a few miles east of here in Virginia, and about 700 feet lower in elevation, it can be a whole different story.

Catmandoo, I went to colelge in your neck of the woods at Frostburg State so I am intimately familiar with the amount of precipitation!

I am considering farther up north closer to where you are but I dont really miss the snow storms.....