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#278984 - 01/27/12 12:41 PM Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus)
Grundulis Offline


Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 344
Loc: Latvia, Europe
Seems like situation about fish is much different between Europe and USA but still I hope to have a discussion about a very special and interesting fish - ide (Leuciscus idus).



Maybe its "pond version" is better known by Americans. It's called golden orfe and it's often kept as an pond fish together with koi carps. But in fact these both species don't differ much.

I'm willing to put these in my pond next year. There are several reasons why:
1)larger fish are partly predators. They can reduce capacity of small minnows in pond;
2)this one can be eaten raw like salmons/trouts - with salt/sugar mix;
3)pleasant fish for fishing;
4)can't see any reasons why this one couldn't live in my pond smile

I saw only 2 search results for "orfe" and no results for "ide" here but I still hope that this fish might be familiar for at least for some of you.
So, if you got any comments, questions or whatever - post them here. I hope to create an interesting discussion smile

Of course, I can manage this thing by myself but I sometimes like to have discussions - they might reveal something interesting about fish in general or sometimes can be useful for other fish keepers. That's why such forums are created, isn't it?

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#278990 - 01/27/12 01:15 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: Grundulis]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24032
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
From what I could find on the fish, it's only over on that side of the big pond (and in New Zealand). It's interesting to not that it's classisfied as a predator.

How fast does it grow, and what are the usual angling methods used to catch them?
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#278993 - 01/27/12 01:27 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: Grundulis]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
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Loc: northern VA
Yes, the golden orfe is basically the rosey red version of the fathead minnow but for the ide. Same species, just a man bred genetic color mutation that makes the fish a golden/pinkish coloration.

Ide were actually accidentally introduced into the Potomac River where I live in the late 1800's by the FWS. A flood inundated some of their rearing ponds where they were studying ide and those ide were washed into the Potomac River. I have collected one ide in the Potomac River in all my years of collecting in it and its tributaries. So it is certainly not common and I have no other experience with them. They are not known to be found in the wild anywhere else in the country except for a few extirpated populations from isolated bodies of water and single specimens scattered throughout.

They are not common in the garden pond trade as golden orfes likevkoi or goldfish are. However, they can be found and my old neighbor had 8 of them when I was a kid.

My understanding is they need current to spawn, being found mostly in large river and lakes and they ascend streams to spawn in the spring. So, they most likely would survive in your pond but would not reproduce in it.
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#278995 - 01/27/12 01:39 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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But, if you search for Leuciscus idus, they grow up to 40" in length! That's a BIG FHM!!!! wink
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#279002 - 01/27/12 02:31 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Still not convinced I'd eat one... I did like cooking creek chubs up over the camp fire as a kid though.
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#279004 - 01/27/12 03:10 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: CJBS2003]
Grundulis Offline


Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 344
Loc: Latvia, Europe
Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Still not convinced I'd eat one... I did like cooking creek chubs up over the camp fire as a kid though.

There is a difference between chub and an ide. Haven't heard about eating chub without any proper cooking (except people with very special wishes :D) but ide can be used that way. I have tried it and it's not bad. Of course, it's not as fat as salmon/trout and fish bones makes the eating a bit hard but it tastes good. When I tried it for the first time, I wasn't sure that I really wanted to do it. But it's good.

Originally Posted By: esshup
It's interesting to not that it's classisfied as a predator.
How fast does it grow, and what are the usual angling methods used to catch them?
But, if you search for Leuciscus idus, they grow up to 40" in length! That's a BIG FHM!!!!

As I said, it's predatory behavior can differ in various places. If it has got enough possibilties to catch smaller minnows then ide will catch them. If there is lack of them then ide can eat snails and similar food. For example, a northern pike is such predator that eats fish and small animals ONLY.
40 inches mean over 1 meter in length. That sounds like some theoretical value that can be hardly ever seen in real life. For example, the record of this fish in Latvia is 0,72 m (~28"), 5,5 kg (~12lb). Once I saw this record in some serious world record table and that probably means that such size has to be considered as a big one. But anyway even 3 kg fish is a pleasant surprise when caught.

How do they get caught? If fishing goes on in a river then something similar to fly fishing technique can be used but a floating bug has to be used instead of small fly. Small spinner baits or crankbaits are good too.
In Latvia they aren't very often found in lakes so not much people try to catch only them there - such a pointless thing...

Originally Posted By: CJBS2003

My understanding is they need current to spawn, being found mostly in large river and lakes and they ascend streams to spawn in the spring. So, they most likely would survive in your pond but would not reproduce in it.


I guess that you are wrong. They prefer rivers but ides can also live in lakes too and I've read about cases when ide has been the dominating fish in the lake. There should be no problems with reproducing. Anyway I'm going to buy some of these in the spring and before that I'm going to have a serious conversation with fishkeepers.


Edited by Grundulis (01/27/12 03:11 PM)

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#279011 - 01/27/12 04:50 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: esshup]
RER Offline


Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1926
Loc: N FL
Seemed Kind of pricey at $10 each for 4-5" fish to stock and and get eaten.
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#279012 - 01/27/12 04:50 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: RER]
RER Offline


Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1926
Loc: N FL
any place get them cheap??
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#279016 - 01/27/12 05:09 PM Re: Ide/golden orfe (Leuciscus idus) [Re: RER]
Grundulis Offline


Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 344
Loc: Latvia, Europe
This is the that record website I mentioned above:

http://www.fishing-worldrecords.com/scientificname/182/show

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