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Joined: Apr 2011
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We have a larger pond of 55 acres in Lousiana. It used to be excellent fishing but now it looks like the fish are starving. The rule out there is catch and release all bass under 14 inches. Also, no bass (even over 14") can be kept from March 1st through June 1st (the spawn). It is very hard to get the members to understand that we should possibly keep the little ones...

HEre are the details on forage (as far as i can tell):
The bluegill are not very abundant
There are Crappie in the lake
Each time i fish I usually catch 2-5 skinny bass under 14"
10 acres of the lake is 10' deep, the rest is 4'-6' deep
There is NO grass excepta little alligator grass on banks
The water is really muddy, silty.

Do you think that I should add some threadfin shad or bluegill? Or grass of some kind to help out?

It will probably cost a ton & the funds are limited. I am talking with our members about changing the size limit to a slot of some kind, but I don't know... Any cost effective idea would be great! Thanks

Last edited by beezaboy; 12/20/11 08:01 PM.

I could be chasing anything from women to alligators but one thing's for sure, I'm after a trophy...
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Start taking out small LMB. Get organizations to help like scout troups , church groups , fishing clubs etc. You likely need to take out 1250 lbs of small LMB. Then you can add tshad and adult BG .

How do the crappie look ?

Last edited by ewest; 12/20/11 09:42 PM.















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Like Ewest said, you gotta remove the small LMB. Since the members are reluctant to do so, I'd suggest getting a pond management company in that has a shock boat to shock the pond and remove the LMB for you.

I think the most INEFFECTIVE way to try and fix the situation would be to stock forage without removing the correct amount of LMB first.


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Why is the pond so silty/muddy? If it's really bad that will affect the establishment in the future of the tshad.

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And make life hard for sight feeders like LMB and BG.
















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Thanks, the crappie look thin and small as well. I will talk with them about removing the small LMB. The pond is silty because of the soil. It is located in the old Atchafalaya basin. The river actually used to run right there before it changed course. So, it's got silty soil. I will try to see if we can get a shocking crew, that would be ideal... Thank you guys.


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beezaboy,

Go to you local industrial park and start scavanging busted pallets. You can arrange them in the shape of an "A" using some thin scrap lumber and deck screws.

Sink them in the 10ft area by either fastening some sandbags or cinder blocks to the crosspiece with wire.

These will provide an inexpensive shade for your predator fish as well as structure for your fingerlings to hide which they'll need during periods of low water (drought).

Introduce about 15-20 pickerel or Northern Pike to start harvesting these underfed bass. The size of your pond will support them. The muddy bottom likely means they won't reproduce, but they should resolve your abundance of underfed bass.

If you wish, add bluegill and fathead minnow fingerlings about 6 months after you've added the pickerel and created more structure for them to hide. You should see the bass population drop and the bluegill population grow.

If you can afford to, get a load or two of pea gravel and create some spawning areas in the 3ft shallows for your fish to reproduce. Perhaps drop some pallets down first to keep the mud
from enveloping the gravel.

If your pickerel eventually diminish, it will be after they've already culled your abundance of bass and given your bluegill and fatheads an opportunity to get established.

Another way of creating structure is with EMT conduit, boxes and strips of landscaping fabric. These will cost you less than $35 to make and are 10ft long.

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I don't think northern pike would do well in Louisiana's warm climate. Chain pickerel would survive OK. However, this pond is very muddy and both species are very much site feeders, I doubt chain pickerel would do well either and with as over populated as the bass are, the chain pickerel would struggle to make a dent but could actually increase the problem through competition for the limited resources in the pond. Stocking fatheads into a pond that already has adult bass in it is for the most part a waste of money. Just a quick snack that will not last more than a week if that. The addition of structure will certainly help some BG to survive but with many hungry bass mouths, it will only go so far. I think the mentality of the angling club needs to change for an affect to occur. They need to start keeping small bass. Every crappie caught should be kept as well.

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Like Bass, Northern Pike seem to tolerate the hot summers in Illinois just fine. Seeing as how they are part of the Pickerel family, I figure the Northern could substitute in the event Pickerel are hard to locate at your local hatcheries. You won't need many and they're easy to order. Perhaps they'll just feed all year round (like Bass).

Northern Pike are eating machines and it won't take but 1 or 2 per acre (10 foot deep) to have an impact. They will definitely pursue the 10" bass, smaller Carp, Catfish etc.. before the few scrawny Panfish you're describing.

If the water clarity allows you to catch 4 bass a day, I'm presuming the Northern will be able to hunt and likely get more Bass than the fisherman.

I believe the key is to (inexpensively) create enough structure for your Panfish to be able to hide and thrive. You're real problem appears to be lack of Panfish due to lack of cover.

Once the Bass are reduced and cover introduced, Bluegills and Fatheads will improve everything. But, they'll need places to hide and spawn.

If your budget allows, a truck load or two of gravel to make spawning beds could go a long way toward reproduction of all your gamefish.

Cull your Bass, introduced artificial structures (pallets) for the Bluegills and Fatheads, to hide, and you'll be closer to achieving some balance.

You can either harvest the Northern or they'll die off, but they likely won't reproduce in the silty bottom.

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The hot summer in Illinois and Lousianna are totally different. In Illinois, 90 F is consider hot to most. In Louisanna, 100+ F is considered hot. Louisanna has many days of this kind of weather. I agree with CJBS toally on this.

Southern and nothern ponds are completely different. Two different worlds.

In my experience, the problem with most southern ponds is an overabundance of largemouth bass and not enough prey fish to feed the bass. So the fish become stunned. Most experts recommend taking typically 100-500 bass depending on the situation.

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Illinois Joe, welcome to Pond Boss! Love the detail in your posts so far. Would be great if you've introduce yourself formally in the Introduction Forum. Look forward to more posts from you!

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New Orleans, LA Temperatures 1962 - 2010:
Highest Temperature:104.0ºF
Lowest Temperature:12.0ºF
Average High Temperature:78.4ºF
Average Low Temperature:61.5ºF

Rockford, IL Temperatures 1951 - 2010:
Highest Temperature:104.0ºF
Lowest Temperature:-27.0ºF
Average High Temperature:58.2ºF
Average Low Temperature:38.6ºF

I would try Pickerel first since they're more native, but believe Northern Pike could handle your summers just as Bass do.

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I have to agree with Joe. Here in the st. louis area the temps and humidity are almost identical to that of the majority of louisiana, excepting the coastal regions, and we have the silty mississippi bottoms soil as well. I've seen several farm ponds with tiger muskie controlling the overpopulated species, usually one per acre. But, anyone familliar with my story knows my bias for tiger muskie.

At the roughly 70 acre world shooting complex in sparta IL there are buckets of muskie and tiger muskie that are thriving. From a friend of mine in conservation, they never thought that the TM would have taken off, and perhaps they stocked too many, but they are in there, and they are huge.

I would stay away from pike, just because of the risk of overpopulation. But then, I'm biased there as well.

However, that being said, with my dad's overpopulated bass problem, I doubt the ridiculous amount of pike introduced were actually the solution to the problem, and instead removing a few hundred pounds likely had the most impact.

disclaimer: my dad's pond has the most ridiculously clear water on earth. my experiences with pike overpopulating might not be relevant to your experiences. Also, i'm no pro, i'm not a biologist and have been attempting to manage a bass population for less than 2 years. soooooo.......listen to other people before you listen to me.


Trying to help with 7.5 Acres in the Chain of Lakes Illinois
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The fish would stay out of trouble if it could just keep its fool mouth shut.
Turns out there is a lot I should be learning from the fish.
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The Northern Pike is a cold water fish. Although the record highs are the same, there is a 20 degree difference in average high temperatures. This is significant when talking about water temperature.

The average number of days above 90 F for New Orleans is 71 days. While the average number of days above 90 F for Rockford, IL is 15 days. So there is a nearly a two month difference of when New Orleans has a high above 90 F and Rockford, IL does. New Orleans also has, on average, 277 days or 76% of the year above 70 F. Rockford, IL has an average of 165 days or 45% of the year above 65 F.

Also, New Orleans has an average of six nights where the temperature drops to 32 F or lower and nine days a year the temperature fails to make it above 49 F. Whereas Rockford, IL has an average of 145 days below 32 F with 26 of these days being below 5 F.

While the record high temperatures look similar, you need a more detailed breakdown to determine water temperatures. The breakdown I have provided shows why there would be a significant difference in water temperature readings. It is easy for one day to have spikes or declines in temperature but water temperatures do not change instantly. A small pond would change the fastest while a larger lake such as this one would take more time.

My fear is that the year around water temperature would not be suitable to northern pike. There would be trouble locating a hatchery with northern pike in the southern U.S.

Northern pike have been introduced to some south states but if you look closely at the breakdown the pike were introduced in the cooler waters of the southern states and introduced by state agencies.

If you go here: http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=676. You can see that there are no northern pike in the states of Louisanna, Mississippi, Alabama, or Florida. All the previously listed states have several things in common: All border the Gulf of Mexico, elevation wise are fairly low states and have similar climates.

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My suggestion is that if you can purchase Pickerel, do that, but Northern Pike are an option and likely will survive as long as they have suitable oxygen.

They can survive hot summers and their metabolism requires more food in hotter temperatures (as long as there is suitable oxygen). My guess is that if your water can support Bass, the Northern will survive and likely put a suitable dent into your skinny Bass population

Yon can experiment with as few as 20 Northern and see what happens.

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There are no hatcheries that sell chain pickerel. I've looked and looked, wish there was... It would take chain pickerel 6+ years to even reach 24", the size where they would actually start preying on the size bass he needs removed. That is assuming they could find enough food to reach that size... If he has piles of stunted bass, chances are the food chain is hurting and there is a large over lap in the diets of chain pickerel and bass.

Hey, if you want to go exotic, why not stock some alligator gar... They can and will tolerate high temps and low DO and are known predators of largemouth bass. I doubt you really want to do that though. The solution is to educate your fishing club that removing smaller bass and many of them is needed to grow bigger bass.


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