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My wife and I recently purchased 16 acres here in central Oklahoma. The idea is to build a pond, plant some trees, and make a nice place to build a house in the coming years. The land is pretty flat overall as it has been used for farmland for several years. Part of the land, as you'll see below is located in a floodplain.

I had the local NRCS out already to do some looking around. My original thought was that I wanted to build something pretty large, maybe around 3 acres. I thought a running windmill could help to keep it full. After talking to the NRCS, and doing some research online, Im not so sure. The NRCS recommended something around 1/2 acre. To me, that just doesn't seem like much or enough. I have an understanding of how much 3 acres is, as my house lot now is 1.5 acres, and my neighbors is also 1.5 acres. Thats where I came up with the 3 acre idea...

I started doing a little research yesterday, and according to one of the Oklahoma College's websites, we experience about 60" of evaporation per year. So for a 1 acre pond, that's about 1,629,250 gallons of evaporation per year...? Does that sound right? So for a 2 or 3 acre pond, that number could just be multiplied by the 2 or 3?

We do average around 30" of rain per year. Per 1 acre, that would be about 814,620 gallons. So I would still have a deficit of 814,620 not including any runoff that I might catch. On Aermotor's windmill website, they say their 8' model can pump approximately 190 gph in 15-20 mph winds. Our average wind speed is 12.3 mph. So multiplying the 190 gmp x 24 hours x 365 days x .5 the mph = 832,200. So that would seem to make up for the difference.

Am I looking way to deep into this? I'm probably like most people, and want the best/most, but I definitely dont want to end up with an empty hole or a mud pit...I figured it might be good to start construction in October or so to catch all the winter and spring precipitation before the summer.

Here are the pictures of the land and the layout.


This first one shows the outline of the land. The east/southeast border is a running creek, but the creek bed is about 30 below the rest of the land, else it could be a great source to fill with...



This is where to floodplain extends..


This is the topography map...


Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to include as many details as possible to get the best answers and ideas...

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Welcome JxxxOxxxE.

I'm no soils guy, but we have some good ones here that should chime in soon. Stay tuned!


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 Originally Posted By: esshup
Welcome JxxxOxxxE.

I'm no soils guy, but we have some good ones here that should chime in soon. Stay tuned!


I will be patiently waiting. I have the Perfect Pond book already, and have been reading as much as possible.

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JxxxOxxxE,

Hey Joe welcome,

The NRCS is giving you stats on what they belive will work with what little bit of land you have. I am sure someone else here can get a bit more accurate with this, but I belive for a 3 acre pond NRCS would like you have about 30 acres of watershed. A one acre pond should have a 8- to 12-acre watershed, or approximately three to five acres of drainage area for each acre-foot of water storage. Course this could change if you have a way to pump in water all the time when needed.

Last edited by RC51; 01/08/10 09:34 AM.

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Hello JxxxOxxxE and welcome to Pond Boss. I'm certainly no expert so I'll leave the analysis to one of them. Congratulations on the purchase of your property! Hang on for some feedback.


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YOu have given this much thought but
1. you need to determine watershed acres.
2. based on this determine based on rainfall the avg stated n the area nrcs should know this per watershed to surface acre.
3. I would use the pump to maybe offset evap but not depened on it as source of filling the pond.
$. Once you have doable acres define your goals based ont he acres you sustain for the pond.


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Hey Joe,

Listen to Greg he knows his stuff!!
Here is something else you may want to keep in mind. Also keep in mind the information I am giving you here is general. Not written in stone. As Bill Cody says "It All Depends"

Excavated ponds may be preferred over embankment ponds in flat or gently sloping terrain and may not require an expensive dam. Floodplains should be not be selected as sites for either type of pond because the dam may be eroded by floods.


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Well, I just got off the phone with the NRCS, and they said preliminary calculations show me to have about 40 acres of watershed there. Which would go with what RC51 said for a 2-3 acre. The NRCS guy said 1/2 acre again. I'm not sure what to think...


 Originally Posted By: RC51


Excavated ponds may be preferred over embankment ponds in flat or gently sloping terrain and may not require an expensive dam. Floodplains should be not be selected as sites for either type of pond because the dam may be eroded by floods.



I figured since the land was so flat that I would end up with more of an excavation, rather than building a dam. There might be a small dam, but nothing big...

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Do you know the type of soils that are found on your place?


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 Originally Posted By: JxxxOxxxE
Well, I just got off the phone with the NRCS, and they said preliminary calculations show me to have about 40 acres of watershed there. Which would go with what RC51 said for a 2-3 acre. The NRCS guy said 1/2 acre again. I'm not sure what to think...


Did he say why he come to that conclusion?


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 Originally Posted By: esshup
Do you know the type of soils that are found on your place?


Here in Oklahoma we have alot of clay. He said from looking at the maps that the soil would probably be fine, but that they'd definitely test it first...

 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond


Did he say why he come to that conclusion?


Well when I met with them earlier in the week we met at the site. When they said 1/2 acre then, I figured it was just from looking at the layout of the land, since they hadn't looked at the maps yet. I was surprised to hear the 40 acre watershed number today, but then was surprised again to hear a 1/2 acre again...He did say that it may be a little much for the 1/2 acre, but that it should be okay...I didnt throw in that I still wanted bigger...

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Well you got me lost now?? That doesn't make sence to me? 40 acres of watershed is quite a bit. Maybe someone else could shed some light on it for you. Greg / ewest / Theo does that sound right? 40 acres of watershed for just a 1/2 acre pond? I have a 1 acre pond and I don't have near 40 acres of shed.


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It depends on the avg rainfall.
















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I think I am going to call them back on monday and see what programs and data they are using to calculate it. He said it was all done on computer. He faxed me this sheet this afternoon...I dont know what any of it means...LoL...




Soil Types: Dale B ???? Does that mean anything to anyone?



As stated above, the average rainfall is approximately 30".



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Yeah suppose that would be right. Who cares how much watershed you have if you don't have any rain for it!!! \:\) I am such a rookie. Joe we average about 45 inches a year here in Arkansas and my pond is just under 1 acre and it seems to keep it pretty well full except in the very heat of the summer. Course this year we got 81 inches of rain and it's been a mess!! 30 inches does seem a bit low for a 2 or 3 acre pond even though you do have the watershed for it. Try to find someone who can come and give you a 2nd or 3rd opinion and see what they say.


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Brettski, thanks for the link...



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Hey Joe

Here in E NE we receive 29" of precipitation annually - and using that formula the NRCS stated it requires 33 acres of watershed to naturally sustain water levels for a 1 acre pond.

My watershed is just over 40 acres. I built a 4 acre pond. I irrigate to supplement precipitation. For me the cost of drilling a well was worth it as I plan to live there someday. Hope this is helpful.


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Joe

40 acre watershed at 30" annual precip will definitely keep a 1/2 acre pond full, but I would wager you could go a little larger and supplement with your windmill or try a trash pump from the creek near your land if you have access to it.


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Thanks for the replies...

teehjaeh57, do you irrigate with a windmill or an electric pump? If windmill, what brand and size? How many gpm or gph are you getting? Does it constantly run? If so, do you have a slight overflow? Do you know your average evaporation?

I definitely plan on drilling a well to supplement water. I plan to build a house here in 5 - 10 years, and then never move again. So a good investment doesnt worry me...

Im supposed to be going to look at a pond a local guy built somewhere in the 6+ acre range that he keeps full running a 5 horse well pump at 50 gpm...

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Joe

I dug a 270' well - 5 HP Electric Goulds pump - had to govern it down to do under 50 GPM so I wasn't regulated by the state.

Evaporation is hard for me to estimate as last year I filled my ponds for the first time and I think I'm losing a lot of water to the soil. This Spring I figure soils should be saturated and I'm going to monitor very closely. I know I have one small pond with a leak - I want to be certain my other ponds are okay.

One thing I learned is bigger doesn't equate into better in terms of BOW size. A 1 acre or two 1/2 acre ponds allow you a great opportunity to diversify and experiment and still allow for trophy fish to grow. If you wanted to you could have a SMB, YP, RES and HSB pond on top - put in an agridrain - and the second pond could be your classic LMB, BG, CC pond.

I know you probably have your doubts regarding the ability of a 1/2 ac BOW to grow trophy fish. If well managed you can produce trophy fish as several forum guys can attest in very skinny water. There's a fella I know just down the road with a .2 acre pond and he's raised 2 lb RES, BG, and YP in it. Something to consider.


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Thanks for the info...

Does anyone have any experience with solar powered well pumps? either a large gpm DC pump, or what it would take to run a decent AC pump with an inverter from the solar cells...?

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I looked into it a while back (solar pump) and in my situation it wasn't economically feasible. The start-up motor draw was the killer.


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Me too - solar array was going to be huge to try and run the pump...they laughed at me when I asked for a proposal.

Joe, you won't need to run this thing 24/7 unless you try to build a 4 acre pond with a 40 ac watershed. Try getting used to the idea that smaller can be better. You could even do 4 individual 1/3 acre ponds and have a crazy variety of ponds! Catfish pond with monster FC, BC, and CC's. Crappie pond with single sex crappie going 15+". SMB/YP/RES pond. LMB, HSB, BG pond. Man, that sounds like fun!

I saw your creek near your property - do you have rights to pump from the creek? A trash pump run a few times a year could help you keep the water levels stable. But again, if you have only 1 acre of water your precipitation could go a long way to keeping your BOW[s] full without the need for a well.


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Joe,

I would get back in touch with the nrcs guy and find out why the low recommendation. I would think you would be able to at least do 1.5 acres. I would not suggest building in the flood plain or pumping out of the creek for water as you will run the risk of introducing species of fish that you do not want in your pond. As far as the windmill goes it sounds like you are trying to avoid running electricity to your site. The price for digging a deep enough well should be about the same for an electric pump or windmill. For my money I would like to flip a switch when I need it versus depending on enough wind. Flow rates given for those windmills usually are under ideal (high wind) conditions. You may not have that when you need it. Adding a well should definitely allow you to build a larger pond. The nrcs should be able to give you a proper water deficit to calculate how big of a well you need.

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