Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Filamentous Algae Control

This is a minnow of interest to me for maintaining a clear pond but is an algae eaters that won't roil the water. Whether it can survive with bass & bluegill predators is questionable.


The Northern Redbelly Dace feeds mainly on filamentous algae and diatoms, but also zooplankton and aquatic insect larvae. Their predators consist of other fish, kingfishers and water fowl especially mergansers.[5] In small lakes where no piscivores live the Northern Redbelly Dace fills the niche of a planktivore. However in larger lakes, it is restricted to the vegetation mats by shore where it must compete with other minnows for food.

The main thing that controls weather FA grows and how much of it grows is dependant on the nutrient ratio of nitrogen and dissolved phosphorus in the water. AT times, cooler water, temperature will suppress planktonic algae and cold water FA will grow if nutrients are adequate. Nutrients in the water control plant growth.

I'm a little disappointed in my clear pond now with the algae blooms taking place underwater in some areas without an abundance of water plants. In the past I would have taken care of this with the IC, KOI and CC, but this time I don't want anything that will roil the pond's clarity. That's why I am looking at offbeat fish like the Northern Redbelly Dace that could take over when the tadpoles are grown by the third week in June. I don't think I have many options. This clear pond has been a pleasant surprise and is like looking at an aquarium to see the plants and minnows. I am spotting some plants I have never seen in my pond before because of the sunlight penetration I believe. Tilapia is out because of the winter weather kill off and I suspect they muddy the water. A long shot hope is that GSH might eat some FA as someone suggested. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

John:

I don't think they'd muddy the water (Tilapia). It would be a very interesting experiment to put some in there. The good thing is that they take care of themselves by dying in the winter so if they don't work out, you don't have to do anything to get rid of them. I have them in my pond, and the water is getting clearer, not muddier.

I put them in a .8 ac pond that historically has had a pretty bad FA problem. Nothing different has been done to the pond this year other than adding the Tilapia. The FA hasen't shown up this year. The water currently has 24" visibility, but it has a LOT of goldfish in the pond, and I think the turbidity is due to them. The goldfish have been in the pond for a few years, and even with them in the pond there was a FA problem. I have removed 274 goldfish this year all between 3" and 10" long and it seems that I haven't put a dent in their population.

esshup you have given me an option with the Blue Tilapia for next spring. Since our ponds are nearly the same size, what size and how many Blue Tilapia do you put in, and how early in the spring are they available? Do you have a good source here in IN for them? I live 75 miles south of Ft. Wayne and will most likely have to drive beyond Ft. Wayne to get mine. I would transport them in a cooler rigged with an oxygen pump to back home.

Here is a vague map of where you may find Northern Redbelly Dace close to Indiana.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/fish4ic/x-46/phoeos

If you expect northern redbelly dace to do well in a pond, it had better stay cool, as in darn near trout temperature cool, it better be heavily vegetated, on the soft side and if it has LMB in it, don't expect them to last long...

I put in 15# this year, and will probably put in 20# nest year. My sourse for Blue Tilapia is R&S Tilapia Stockers, in Missouri. Rex Rains, AKA Rainman on here. He delivers. I got mine the 2nd week of May.

CJB I have the vegetation part covered for the survival of the northern redbelly dace but I do have LMB that are in the minnow stage. The dace bright colors would probably be their downfall with the LMB present as I never had any small KOI grow up to join the 20 large ones I had. The dace might survive the Indiana water temps. When I was in Minnesota’s BWCA lake area 50 miles from Lake Superior during a September I took baths in the lakes and the water was bath tub warm which really surprised me. According to the Michigan dace map they are only 150 miles north of me so temperature wise they might have a chance here in e. central IN. However I found a paper where northern redbelly dace were introduced in Ohio and didn't take. There was no information on why they didn't survive.

Thanks for the information essup.

Right now my algae free pond has FA rather bad in places out to about 20 feet from the edges of the pond. The plant vegetation does it's part in the control of FA but it can't do it all. When I had the algae eating fish this didn't happen in my 16 years of ponding. If it wasn't for wanting a very clear pond I would do what worked before, 6 Israeli Carp, 20 KOI and ended up with about 30 CC for 1 acre. The problem with this is, since Zetts went out of business in Dritings, PA I don't think you can buy Israeli Carp anywhere in the US. My large tadpole population kept the pond completely free of FA until they turned into frogs and that's when the FA bloom started. So I am considering two options now. Tilapia and Northern redbelly dace minnows, both algae eaters. Tilapia would have to be replaced every year because they won't survive the winters and the dace are cold natured and may not survive the warm weather and bass predators. It was believed there were no Northern redbelly dace in Indiana but I think I have found where they just might be in the Mongo, IN area. So I am thinking of doing a kayak overnighter into the area before fall and see what I can find. My secret map.


http://www.michigandnr.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ifr/ifrlibra/Special/Reports/sr24.pdf

With all the FA we are having now I went back to the Farmland Conservation Club to check out what I call the mystery pond. An FA free pond, and her FA chocked sister pond that is much closer together then I had realized, maybe as close as 500 feet.
I have kept tabs of the mystery pond now for over 10 years and there has never been any FA on it. I originally thought the reason was because it used to have thousands of black ramshorn snail in it but only found a few yesterday. Here are yesterdays pictures.




SISTER POND


MYSTERY POND

SNAILS FROM MYSTERY POND

Are there any fish in the mystery pond? If so, what?

any difference in water temps between the two ponds?

I have never seen any fish in the Mystery pond. I always thought the snails might have been the reason for the FA absence but now I don't see many ramshorn snails so I think I have to rule that out. I did see some things dart from under a rock. I think were probably crawfish but seemed to small. I will check again when I go back and I will check the water temperatures and ph of both ponds. The past president of the Farmland Conservation Club thought the pond was more turbid then in the past and might be from some digging at the tail end for expansion. I thought the pond was more turbid then as I remember and visibility looked to be maybe 18".

Temperature and PH results for the sister pond and the mystery pond.

Sister Pond: 80 degrees--PH 8.4+ off my chart,,, complete FA & Water Mill coverage.

MYSTERY POND: 86 degrees--PH 7.2 no vegetation at all except cattails around the edges.

The pond is more turbid then in past years and that may account for the much lower population of black ramshorn snail.
Visibility is about a foot. I'll see if I can get permission to put a baited minnow trap in the pond and see what might be in there that may account for no plant life or FA.

Interesting comparative situation on our two ponds this year. Upper pond received initial fert treatment on schedule. Lower pond did not. And it got too clear, and had a terrible outbreak of FA. Finally got the fert program going in May, got a good plankton bloom, and the FA died back over a period of a few weeks. The FA is not completely gone, but it's probably 80% gone. The bloom blocked the light and apparently killed the FA. The upper pond, which was fertilized early, has maintained a good bloom and had no FA issues. Based on this experience I certainly agree with the view that controlling sunlight penetration is an effective way to control FA. That's my nickel cause I'm outta pennies.