Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Still turbid, what do I do know?

bobad,
Thanks for explaining but does it not bind to clay particles lying on the pond bottom? The reason we apply ag lime across the whole entire pond to get it to fall on as much bottom clay as possible to then change soil chemistry so then water chemistry is improved. I know for a fact applying lime in only a few places in the pond does little to help the water vs. applying properly. I'm still not convinced alum is not needed to be diluuted in the water column to capture suspended clay either slow or fast.

Is it possible for the alum to bind to bottom clay or simply not have enough charge to be "pulled" into the water to bind with suspended clay????

And again I'm back to the PH part of adding alum if acting slowly if you will how do you balance the pH with hydrated lime? Thanks for your time.

DKFarms, where did you purchase your aluminum sulfate? Looking for lime also, can you help me out!!

Thanks

Howdy, Q2, and welcome to the Forum!

Greg,

The alum will bind a little, but the bottom mud can't contain a higher alum concentration than the pond water. That would break Fick's law, which states that molecules quickly travel from areas of highest concentration to areas of lowest concentration until balanced.

I've noticed that pre-dissolving and spreading the alum can quickly settle suspended clay, temporarily clearing the water. It looks very impressive. However, as wind and fish stir up more fine clay particles, it will once again go into suspension. If the water has a high enough concentration of alum (in combination with other positively charged chemicals), you can stir up clay all you want to, and it will soon re-settle. Most pond water (especially in old ponds) has enough calcium, magnesium, salt, etc. that it doesn't take a lot of alum to settle it.

Some ponds are almost pure rain water, and it takes a lot of chemicals to saturate it enough to occupy the negative ions.
That's why a dosage of alum that clears up 1 pond often doesn't clear up another.

Well, the pond is back to 10-12 inches of visibility again. The rain has clouded it up some. My bass are still skinny but the bream seem to be alot more active and willing to bite lately. I put a floodlight near the water's surface to attract bugs as per one expert's recommendation. The turtles and my duck sent me a thank you note with a bouquet of flowers and a bottle of wine. After a week or so I started to see some bass come to the light for bugs. Strangely, I do not see any minnows of any kind anywhere anymore, even under the light. The bass have eaten everything I suppose. My hatchery guru says I should put some pea gravel pads in the pond for the bream to spawn on. Without that, he says the eggs won't make it on the clay bottom and the bass food supply will dwindle even more. The bass will eat the fish food, thankfully.

Thanks to all of the great input from the group, I know what I need to clear the water. My 2 applications of aluminum sulfate worked to some extent. Now I just need to get saturation like Bobad advocates. I may even try his method; I'll put a bag at 8 or 10 locations around the pond perimeter and see what that does. It is such a pain to jump the through the hoops to get that stuff prepped and sprayed. QuickII, I bought my AS from Hanks Warehouse in Rayne,LA. They can order it in 50 lb. bags for about $20 a bag. It's granular so it takes a little stirring to get it dissolved.
Thanks again for letting me start this thread and taking the time to guide me in the right direction.
Ken
DK Farms of Roberts Cove

The best results in life are rarely easy.

This has been a great read. So answer me this, my pond is 3/4 full and its about 1/2 acre average 4ft deepest 8ft, if i put 3 50lb bags of alum in there and it clears up to a decent clarity then the rains come and the water runs off the pasture and down the clay banks its going to get muddy again but the alum will still be in there on the bottom, right? Then when its full I can do it again and and again untill it stays clear and al that alum will stay in my pond. So from then on out every time it gets disturbed from the bottom some alum will be kicked up along with the clay and it will settle back out.Also could you explain to me about the difference in ponds that are mainly filled with "soft rain water" my pond is mostly rain water I dont have much water shed. I know that if I do this now I will need to do it again when full. I just dont know if I should wait or start doing it now. some pics here http://public.fotki.com/tz/clearing-and-pond-p/34-full/

tz666,

I'd suggest planting some rye or other grass to reduce erosion. I doubt 150 pounds of alum will make a noticable improvement. You will most likely need 400-500 pounds. Unless over-treated, I've seen no evidence that alum is cummulative in the water. I have had several people tell me that they added multiple "less-than-needed" applications (all with little or no clearing happening) that totaled more than the originally required application would have been. Once the larger applications were made, clearing occured.

Ok from what I am reading I can take alum, I have a john boat to the deep area of my 3.5 acre pond and dump it to do the job? Question is, what is the ratio of alum to water volume?
Average depth is 8ft after this Texas drought is over.....

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124005#Post124005
3 1/2 acres.. I would suggest reading this thread for info on determining if alum will help, how much to use, and the methods for applying the chemical..du

10 pounds water to 1 pound alum works very well. Or 55 gallons per bag. I mix 50 pounds to 35 gallons in my sprayer, but it takes longer to dissolve well enough to apply.

A pond is truly an interesting phenomenon. My turbid pond with 6 inches visibility, has over the past 45 days, cleared to a spectacular 34 inches, measured by secchi disk. No change in chemistry, tests are the same as they have been all summer. Only measurable change is temperature, average temp at 12 inches has dropped from 85 degrees to 80.5 since August 7th. Chara is thriving as it does every year with cooler water. So what happened? Did those multiple applications of Alum finally "kick in"? I'm as bumfuzzled as ever now, but it's a relief to see that the bass and bream have actually spawned. One day I'll figure this stuff out; maybe.

If you do, PLEASE share it with us!

Does the well water he is adding have a negative effect on clearing the pond if the well water is soft just like the rain water? How can you increase the number of pond plants on the bottom of the pond in order to decrease wind erosion?

I was hoping rainman would chime in by now. I know you are busy but what are your thoughts/

The Alum will not just suddenly "kick in" and I can assure you if the turbidity was from colloidal clay, there was certainly a chemistry change that had just never been measured. Unless your Ph was below 5.4 (which it isn't) the alum will not dissolve in the water and would have eventually settled out of the water column and was bound up in the sediments. With the little information we have on your pond, I wouldn't even venture a guess as to what caused the sudden clearing of your water...it's a stone cold mystery to me.

Intense growth of Chara and or other pond plants can have a clearing affect on the water. Abundant underwater plant growth including filamentous algae can cause clay particles to settle; possibly due to some resultant activity from photosynthesis.