Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking BG WENT IN TODAY!!

Green sunfish around here will convert to pellets readily. I think that it's a given that having bluegill "model" for them will increase their rate of conversion. Green sunfish are opportunists and won't turn their noses up at a quick easy meal.

bobad, you know what's worse than waiting to stock the first time????

Stocking the first time, and then waiting to see the little buggers again. i stocked on Feb. 22nd, then we had a bunch of storms, i didnt see anything of them until march 2nd, they took some food, i was happy, now nothing since friday!?

patience all the way i guess.....it'l be warm soon and i'll probably have more BG than i know what to do with.

Dave,

I'm afraid I can top that. I stocked Sat Mar 3, and haven't even seen the pond since.

I may get a look see tomorrow if I can steal 30 minutes somewhere. My water is so muddy, I doubt I'll be able to see very much.

Hang in there Dave. Once the new guys settle in, I guess they will start feeding along the banks, and you'll be able to see more of them.

awlrighty then pondmeisters, it amazes me what each day brings to the table. woke up, had breakfast, started work, decided to check PB real quick (which is never easy to do) and saw ole jeff's report on his weekend stocking. whew, BG plus RES! what a score. so shutdown PB, called our friendly fish farmer, who said if you can get down here this morning i'll give you some of the same.

so i loaded up the truck with a transport cooler, and the official "RES Health and Safety -Official Protocols Kit for the Handling and Transport of RES", complete with guaze, band-aids, sterile alcohol, tailgate safety meeting forms, emergency numbers, route to hospital map, and recommended PPE (personal protective equipment). The recommendation for first time handlers is level B with supplied air, but i have a pretty good background handling GILLS, so i opted for level D, the usual, steel toed boots, hard hat, ear, eye, and hand protection.

jeff, i'm really sorry i forgot to tell you i had this kit, i would have loaned it to you, so instead, i will help pay yer medical bills if you dont quite cut it this tax season.

i became a bit dismayed but at the same time curious and excited when this was observed near the fish farm:



i got to fish farm, met with our fella, dawned the aforementioned PPE. Fortunately, i used to contract geological services with the DoD, and just happened to have both my alpha and gamma particle emission detectors behind the seat, so i put that on too.

thusly equipped we started scooping and sorting as he wanted to keep several good male and female for his own brood stock. as the detectors were vigorously beeping, i ask him where his stock come from and he curiously avoided the question but mumbled something about a nearby source.....and that he is the only supplier with RES in this part of the (sacramento) valley. he said dont mind the detector noise, he's lived here and been raising these types of fish for over 10 years with no problems, so i figured what the heck, i've really been wanting some of these in my pond.

as i was helping him hold up fish for sorting, i noticed an eerily beautiful irridescance in the fish, and a profound glare coming from their eyes. i found that if you talked really nice to them, told them how pretty they were, what a nice home they were gonna have, and that i was not their new master, but just gonna be the pond boy, i realized i didnt need my hard hat after all. In fact, i was able to remove my safety glasses, chaps, hearing protection, and even my double thick nitrile gloves, and didnt even get stabbed one time. it was then i realized, they actually liked me.....

in all he gave me about 20 beautiful adult fish. here are a couple of them before going in pond.









jeff, thanks for the kind words on yer post, WE DID IT MY FRIEND!

Oh sure and you send your old friend Jeff into to battle with only a T shirt, worn blue jeans and tennis shoes?

Great photos Dave, we did "get er done" and this summer we should have both BG AND RES a plenty! At 5:00pm we should simultaneously crack open a beer and toast our new arrivals. Cheers my friend!

PS If I don't stop messing around on this forum I'm never gonna get taxes done. Note to self: Back to work you laggard!

From the other thread:

quote:

.........if you think strange goings on are behind Condello strain RES, wait'l you see what may be behind the RES Jeff and I got...Take a gander at the piccs over on my thread....

Great, just what we needed-a bunch of overindulged, glow in the dark RES from California.

Question for Dr. Bruce-Can D.I.E.D's RES survive on a vegan diet?

there's a strange glow coming from the deep end of my pond this evening.

shoot......missed you by a half hour jeff.........better late than never, so as my grammie used to say while tipping her adult beverage of choice to mouth....."here's how!"

Man, you guys scored big time! Congrats...and, please be very careful.

Burger those towers look a little like Grand Gulf don't they !! They grow big BG and RES there also.

ewest, thats Rancho Seco. Used to provide ALOT of cheap (and clean) energy (although i know i'm buckin for an argument there) for greater Sac area. Was shut down some months after Three mile island over knee-jerk safety concerns, and rates have only gone up since then.

there is, i've been told, about a 60 acre lake near the cooling towers open to public, it is suppose to have the biggest gills in the area.....hence my stupid little story.... one of these days i'm gonna try it out and make sure to report for PB. it lies only a few miles as crow flies from the fish farm

Yes, that glow in the dark, too. Now that is not nearly as unsightly as the several thousand wind turbines needed to take it's place.

just before sun left pond surface this afternoon, caught nice look at probably half the stocked RES (~10) sunning above the creek channel digout in upper part of pond. threw some crumbled chow their way and......funny......they all turned looked at me, looked at the food, and turned back into the slight current and kept sunning......damn they're stubborn

the water has warmed up about 5 degrees last couple days, and the BG appear to be grouping by size class....several schools of similar sized fish noted around pond edges. have not seen the larger ones, its mostly all the 1-3 inchers doing this.

heybud and bobad, good news, there was noticeably increased gam activity with increased temps the last couple days......seems like around 55 degrees is a general threshold above which fishy activities are more noticeable and on the rise.

Wow good to hear that "fishy activities" are on the rise. Must be something to see those RES and BG in the pond. I had to leave the day after I put my stock in so I only saw the 22 floaters and that wasn't much fun!

Looks like you're in for a week of warmer temps. It'll be interesting to see what observations you have this week. Keep posting what you see, I'm living vicariously through you!

thought this (thread) would be a good place to document some observations since i am watching closely since stocking.

so get this jeff, yesterday, spring day, good and sunny-low wind, air temps near/at 70, all day-lots of schooling BG, visible RES and gams, 10 gazillion bullfrog tadpoles (these guys were at a density of something like 100 per sq ft around shoreline yesterday).

overnight, small weakening front coming in, high clouds this morning, air temps in low 60's......there is NOTHING around the shorelines today......we all hear of how low pressure systems or fronts affect fishy activity, but this kind of slayed me on my walk this morning. there's a few tadpoles hitting the surface out in middle of pond, but in effect they (and fish) all disappeared overnight.....

So does it look like you still have plenty of Gams?

Must have been a great sight to see all of the schooling BG!

i'm still not 100% sure on the gams, there are definitely some, just nothing like (late) last year (a few little handful sized schools instead of many swarming clouds). But, probably, i just need to wait for warmer weather before really knowing....patience, patience, patience i keep telling myself.

It is really nice to see BG in the pond.

On a new subject regarding spawning habits, I need to learn a lot here.

My understanding is that

a) BG exhibit rolling spawn....i.e. spawn all summer

b) GSF spawn once or twice depending on geography, here, definitely twice if not more.

c) RES..???????like BG? or like GSF? or somewhere inbetween????

if anybody like mr. cody, or ewest, or theo, or bruce, (or anybody knowledgeable on the subject) is still reading this thread, can you point me in the proper direction to study a little about BG/GSF/RES spawning habits?

I think it will be quite significant to the RES that they are currently much bigger than any of the BG planted, so hopefully they (the RES) will get a really good spawn or two before the BG begin to take over through shear numbers later this year.

i'm not sure how this will work in yer pond jeff with the presence of higher numbers of adult GSF. will they be competing for the same spawning grounds? will the GSF only spawn once in spring and leave the spawning beds open for the RES to spawn more than once?

Do GSF have rolling spawn all summer here? i know my GSF spawned in late summer (i'm not certain i have any adults left), so you can bet yer GSF spawn will be at least twice this summer.

this will be interesting jeff, no doubt.

Redears spawn once a year, maybe twice if you're lucky.

thanks theo, so it is probably a great thing that the few RES are currently much bigger than all those BG i put in, plus they should be ready to spawn when temps get to where they need to be.

they should spawn twice here i would think. we have 90-100 degree days going into October....its a long growing season here.

This should help.

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/173593-724f...c096684437a2464


Redear sunfish
The redear sunfish, also known as
the shellcracker, is often stocked as
forage in conjunction with the
bluegill in the Southeast and in other
waters that remain turbid. Bass may
not be able to readily see their prey
in these waters and as a result,
bluegill may not be satisfactorily utilized.
The redear is less prolific than the bluegill and since their young
compete for food, may help reduce
total sunfish reproduction.
Redear sunfish
The principles of redear production
are similar to those utilized in the
culture of bluegills. However, redears
do not adapt to formulated
feeds as readily as bluegills because
of their more predatory nature.
Artificial diets can be fed at 0.5 to
2 percent of body weight depending
on temperatures. Ponds rich in zooplankton
and aquatic insect life
should assist in increasing production.
Hybrid sunfish crosses utilizing the
redear sunfish as one parent should
not be cultured or stocked as a
forage fish. The reproductive potential
of these hybrids is greatly reduced
and the resulting offspring are
insufficient for sustaining a bass
population.


Once water temperatures reach
appropriate levels, spawning will
begin. Warmouth and green sunfish
are the first to spawn, with
activity beginning at 70 oF (21 oC).
Redear spawn when water temperature
reaches 75 oF (24 oC),
whereas bluegills do not spawn
until temperature reaches 78 to
80 oF (26 to 27 oC). All species
begin nest building and territorial
behavior at temperatures several
degrees cooler than the optimum
spawning temperature.

My guess is that as the water temp warms up you will have Gams a plenty much like last year. However we both now have lots more predators to thin the Gam herd.

My pond has a lot of area for potential spawning ground. The entire east end of the pond (an area of probably 1/2 to 3/4 of an acre) is 7 feet deep or less, has plenty of cover and has a gentle sloping bottom. This is were it seemed like the GSF were primarily spawning last year. I'm fairly certain that I had two GSF spawns last year also. I netted fish in Sept and Oct that based upon their size differential I kinda figured there were from different spawns. I'm new at this though so I can't swear to it.

I'm sure thought there will be competition for spawning beds at some level. The size of the RES that we put in were comparable in size to the small GSF that I caught last year. The RES have some growing to do before they match the size of the larger GSF I was catching. Based upon my reading though eventually the RES will get significantly bigger than the GSF and therefore may "bully" the GSF.

The BG in my pond will be an entirely different story. The will have to run the gauntlet of the LMB, GSF and to a lesser extent RES. I'm certain that I will lose a lot of my BG to predation but then again they are forage base. I do believe that the LMB and the GSF will eat their share of BG. In my pond the BG that survive will have to be some tough fish. The largest of the BG that we got may be too big for my larger GSF to eat but then again I was amazed at the size of lure that the GSF would stike. Pound for pound it seems like the GSF have a huge mouth when compared to BG and RES.

Last year I caught quite a few 13 to 14 inch LMB. I have no doubt that those guys are quite capable of eating any of the BG that we stocked.

The water temps issue will be interesting. Last year I didn't record any water temps (stupid me). Therefore I have no idea when our ponds will reach 70 degrees do you? May possibly?

If the water temps must reach 78-80 for BG to spawn it seems to me that they won't begin spawning for at least a full month after GSF and probably a couple of weeks or so after the RES. I am just too ignorant of when our ponds will reach those temperatures and how quickly they will rise in temperature. Since I'm about 1,000 ft higher in elevation there may be some variance between our two places although based upon our recent comparison of surface temps it didn't seem like we were any different.

Do you have any ideas or info about average monthly water temps?

With your fancy testing equipment it would be interesting if you ran monthly tests on your pond for temp and chemical analysis and kept track of it (hint, hint). I'd also like to (on a 2 or 3 occasions during the year compare readings at your pond to readings at my pond to see the similarities and differences between our ponds. I intend to keep a cooler stocked with your favorite beverage along with a supply of BBQ ready food to lure you over the hill this year.

as always, ewest, thanks.....i figured you guys would have that knowledge available so quickly it would save me a little bit of research time.

since the forum recieves very little detailed info on lepomis habits west of the sierras, jeff and i will hope to add to that knowledge base as best we can......so yes jeff, this is the year to monitor temps. i've already started a little spreadsheet with my first measurements and will add to it throughout year.

i've already blown it with the RES, i didnt get any actual pre-stocking length and weight measurements. I'm curious what their average Wr was at stocking. i didnt want to take up the fish farmers time with my pointy hat measurements, and after the long ride home, didnt want to stress the fish any more than they had been....i'm just enough of a rookie here, but maybe they would have been fine?

anyway jeff, it might behoove us to be ready to take length and weight measurements and track the growth as we (hopefully) catch these fish in the near future.

You might want to leave the weeds in yer shallows this year just for the RES and BG, and me and my fancy equipment are ready, you wont have to lure us too hard

DIED you have pics. Look at the pic , measure that part of your finger (actual vs pic) that is visible in the pic and estimate length from the pic. Then go to the Wr table at the link below. I would guess from the pics and because they just came from the hatchery they were at 100% Wr. There is your ball park starting point.

Wr for LMB , BG and RES link (Southeast )

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1193/

While this starts at 6in for RES I will look tonight to see if Fisheries Tech 2d or another publication has Wr below 6in.

Heck, Eric - that's the first RES RW table I remember seeing at all. Thanks for linking!

dittos theo.....printed out and in my pond file as we speak.......awesome eric, thanks,

i used my original high res pic for measuring, (same as the second RES pic on the previous page), and got 4.5 inches from the (last) wrist wrinkle to end of thumb, which makes the fish 6.5 to 7 inches and 0.2 to 0.3 pounds of irradiated attitude

fish is curved in pic, so i figured probably a half inch error margin........take note jeff...

DOH, I never thought of weighing and measuring the RES before I released! Dang, what an novice mistake! Then again, the RES drew blood just picking him up to photo.... had I attempted to weigh and measure I might have lost an appendage or two.

I am going to track anything that I catch this year. Last year I only "noted" the length and weight of the larger LMB and GSF. This year I intend to track everything that I possibly can.

I have an abundance of weeds, in particular Elodea. I had way, way too much coverage last year. I am going to eliminate a lot of the Elodea this year through chemical control but I will still leave in plenty for hiding places. I haven't decided exactly what chemical to use yet but have narrowed it down (based upon posts on these forums) to a couple. The only thing that I did last year to control the Elodea was manual removal. It was back breaking work (wet Elodea is very heavy) but I managed to clear some areas out. I've been reading about water lilies on this forum, it seems there are a few of the less invasive species that might be interesting. Eventually I would like to substitute some of the Elodea with lilies. I think they look much better than Elodea.

As you and I discussed recently I think that I might be getting some nutrient run off from the vineyard that is above my pond. Although it is "down stream" from my spillway I have a feeling that when the spillway retreats with the warmer weather it may carry some of the fertilizer backwards into my pond. Is this possible? My spillway is essentially just a stream out of my pond and around the dam. It doesn't have a "water fall" type of separation. I'm thinking of adding something between my pond and the spillway stream. I noticed that you have a concrete structure that creates a water fall type drop. I'd like your input on that set up Dave. I am concerned that as the vineyard gets fertilized (let alone future pesticides) that I will get some intrusion into my pond.

I intend to pick your brain some this year so I'd glad that you will be lure-friendly!