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IMO you should be looking for 6"-8" LMB - some 10" if they have them. Keep in touch with Keystone hatcheries and Nate Herman as to their status of larger bass (6"-10"), often avilability changes in the hatchery business. YOur pond could have had a partial winter kill or numerous spawning failures due to over crowded sunfish /BCrappie to the point of eventually eating all the bass eggs and fry during the past 4-6 yrs. Thus as LMB died &/or were harvested few if any new LMB were recruited leading to few bass and over abundant smaller fish. 7 ac is quite a bit of water to get back into shape - 'balance'. It will take a quite a bit of effort and expense to manage it back into balance. Expanding it to 12 acres will not make it easier to manage.


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Bill those are pure GSF? I will have to post another picture in a day or so of another fish that is a sunfish of sorts and hope you can tell me what it is.

Thank you for all the information about the LMB. I called keystone last week Thursday and there was a waiting list. I will get on the list tuesday 1st thing. Only problem is getting them from IL to WI. I'll have to make a few tanks with aerators for the long trip.

In your guess after adding 160 8-10" LMB this year and 200 3-4" LMB this year - how long to see a turn around? 1 yr? 2yr?

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Yes IMO those are pure GSF. YOur other fish may be some hybrid bluegill you are seeing? IMO and experience I would not stock any 3"-4" LMB until you are seeing numerous new sunfish 1" long. Until then the new fingerling bass will not compete very well with the existing larger sunfishes and smallest bass will have very poor survival due to lack of invertebrate food and competition from too many starving sunfish 3"-5" long. You will be much better off spending that money to buy more 7"-8" LMB, especially if you are catching in traps 2"-3" sunfish/BG.

Often the hatchery is delivering in our area / region and you can meet the fish truck somewhere.

How long to see a turn around? Depends on how you define a turn around. IMO significiant progress is when you see numerous bass fingerlings naturally produced in your pond. If numerous sunfish are not removed at the same time then turn around will be slower. Seven acres is a lot of water to get back into balance due to the tremendous numbers of over populated sunfish you are dealing with. One acre is one thing and 7 ac is a significantly greater task. I think your goal while supplimentally stocking bass should be to remove 300-400 small sunfish per acre (2100-3000). Balance will be achieved quicker if you stock another 60-80 6"-8" LMB next year (2012). Maybe now readers will better realize the value of 25-30 LMB per acre, esp when a pond is overpopulated with sunfish/BG.

In your trapping do you have any idea of the ratio of BG:Sunfish (non-BG) that you are catching. Separate, count, and determine the ratio. It will also help to categorize them by size assuming your trap has a 3"-4" high opening. Are you using a larger trap?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/29/11 09:12 PM.

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I have attached the other sunfish we have. Please let me know what you think these are.

I'll check on delivery but I am a long way from them.

Great - I was thinking close to 5,000 fish to remove so I am in line with your thinking. I'll see what I can get from Keystone for pounds of LMB Tuesday.

Yes - in my trapping my ratio is 1 BG for every 3 sunfish. So 1:3 That isn't counting bullheads I have a total of 34 bullheads in 4 days.
The trap is 2 foot square and 11" high. I modified the trapp to have 2 6inch openings and kept the orginal 4-3inch openings.
I have a 2nd trap coming that is larger all around.

I am keeping as much data as I can think of to help me in my process.

Thanks again for reading this! I am really on the right track now. I am at 373 total fish removed for 2011 and counting. so 1 of 7 ac done. smile

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other fish.jpg
Last edited by Allmadness; 05/29/11 10:02 PM. Reason: Forgot fish total.
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Your "other fish" is a warmouth... Another big mouthed competitor to young bass.

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I'm so confused - If the 4 pictures I posted either are GSF and the "other fish" is a War mouth. I do a google images search and war mouth comes back as my 1st 4 pictures and I do a GSF google images search and I get pictures of the "other fish"


THe "other fish" picture is over populated - it's a sunfish - is this normal?

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Well, no matter what Google says, the first fish is a GSF.

I can't tell from the pic what the other fish is. Travis, how are you identifying it?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Called Keystone - They think they are out. They wrote my name down in case something changes. frown So any other hatchery that have 8 inch or better bass in the midwest?

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Found This Farm:

http://www.roeselerfarms.com
Phone:
920-696-3090
Wisconsin

He currently has 6-9 inch LMB. I got my order in, I am pumped. Can't wait to see those Bass start eatting.

Last edited by Allmadness; 06/03/11 02:09 PM. Reason: had wrong location listed
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I would like to see a shaper image of the other fish and maybe one that is a little closer of the head. Technically the upper jaw length of a warmouth should extend backward to the middle of the eye. I don't see that occurring in the other fish photo. Warmouth do occur in WI.
For the LMB, possibly Rainman will be making a delivery to WI soon or this fall. Also check with Nate Herman. They may be able to deliver you fish included in another order.

If you want second opinions of google fish identifications provide links. Beware of Google images.


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Roeseler's fish farm appears okay. They have 6"-9" LMB at $2.00ea which is a decent price. I would contact them to see what they say about availability and delivery. Very good chance the LMB will be all close to 6"-7" and not 8"-9". Note their picture of a hybrid bluegill appears to me a female pure stain BG. Ask if you can get some 8"-10" LMB at maybe a higher price. Maybe they can grow you some larger bass 10"-12" for this fall.

Are you measuring any of the sunfish you are trapping? For LMB to eat them the bass needs to be at least 3 times longer that the sunfish. 2.5"-3" sunfish are eaten by 9"-12" LMbass.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/31/11 11:44 AM.

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I'll get a better image in a day or 2 I hope.

The 6-9 LMB are actually 3.50 each and that is the biggest he has.
He coming Thursday with 100 LMB 6-9inches. I know, I know I need more then that for 7 Ac but this is a low budget operation. I am going to contuine to trap and get smaller LMB later this month which are super cheap. This should maybe get me different age classes.

I also have to buy a pump for aeration so that cuts into budget also.

I'll start measuring the fish we remove. When we are in the boat there are 50 to 100 small 1 - 2inch BG/Sunfish next to boat just there looking at us. I hope the LMB eat LOTS!

Thanks Bill!

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Let us know how big the 6"-9" bass are. Note how many are 9". $3.50 ea is a more realistic price in todays market.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/01/11 09:40 AM.

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Really? Measure all of them? What is that going to tell me?

I would have to put them in a tub/tank then take them out 1 by 1 and measure them, then release them into the pond. ? I guess I was just thinking dump them in?

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No, don't measure every one. Look at them and pick out what appears to be a larger one to measure. This fish can even be removed from the hatchery / truck dip net. sometimes the driver will show you a larger one or the size range - just ask. You are the customer with the money, not them. Then just estimate what percent are that large? Are most 5.5"-6", a few 7"-8" and none larger OR are most 8"-9". I am just curious /nosey about what general sizes you are getting for $3.50ea. Very often sellers provide the smaller size in listed size range. There is quite a big difference between a 6" and a 9" bass. Nine inch bass will eat a noticably larger BG compared to a 5"-6" bass.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/01/11 12:44 PM.

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Ok, I understand now. I'll give details after the drop off.




Last edited by Allmadness; 06/02/11 01:38 PM.
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Roeseler Fish Farms came out today with 150 LMB for the 7 ac pond. I took Bill's advice and measured a few. I have a picture of on that was 7". There was 1 I saw at 9" but mostly they were in the 6" range overall.

I can't say enough great things about Roeseler Fish Farms. They were great throughout the whole process and were willing to work with the little guy.


Attached Images
104_8300.JPG 104_8304.JPG 104_8309.JPG 104_8310.JPG 104_8311.JPG 104_8312.JPG 150 LMB.JPG 104_8318.JPG 104_8319.JPG
Last edited by Allmadness; 06/03/11 01:45 PM. Reason: typ0
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The LMB look healthy!


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Glad to hear - when I was handling them they were sure full of life. I was told that they are 2yr old Bass and some might spawn this year as a few had fat bellys.

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Pictures of the "Other Fish" and a BG, well at least what I think is a BG.

2 fish - 3 pictures each. Took with my BlackBerry so not the greatest pictures, but hope they are ok.

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Other fish 1.jpg Other Fish 2.jpg Other Fish 3.jpg BG 1.jpg BG 2.jpg BG 3.jpg
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It's hard to tell with the fish on a white background to see if the dorsal, anal and caudal fins have a slight yellow margin, but if I had to guess I'd say RES on the "other" fish. Both fish look like they are a bit under weight - large eyes for the body, and more elongnated vs. vertical body depth.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #260960 06/03/11 08:25 PM
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The other fish look like some sort of hybrid sunfish to me. I still can not get a good look at the upper jaw. Those bass will have to survive on and get 'going' utilizing 1"-2" sunfish-BG. I hope there are plenty of them for those bass to eat. YOur water appears clear enough for the bass to adequately see and catch small fish. if those bass get enough food they should be 9" by mid October. Catch a few then and check for growth.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/03/11 08:36 PM.

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The other fish does look like a hybrid sunfish of some mix. Which, I am not sure. Those bass look nice! I hope they produce the way you want them to.

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Note: CJ and I are both strongly guessing without clearly seeing the fish and knowing what brood stock are in the pond.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/04/11 10:23 AM.

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I had to laugh - I would bet money I won't be able to catch a bass later this year. As soon as you put the hook in the water you have a fish on- yes with no bait. But I will try, I have little hope. And there just isn't enough Bass yet...

Here are a few videos. Since my picture taking hasn't been any good. 2 of the pond which I promised a while back, There is more pond to the left and right but not able to get it all from this viewing location. 2 of the "other fish" with 4 BG. Please let me know your thoughts. I hope I got all the angles of the "other fish"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOI5GF88D_I
Pond - View 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPPbdLIlKA
Pond - view 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agqI48dWB8
Other fish close up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcOesLDMuQ
other fish and BG

Last edited by Allmadness; 06/05/11 10:16 PM.
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