Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Help on an East Texas Lake

Hello to Everyone! I'm new to this website, but I am simply amazed with the abundance of great information available here.

I have just a couple of questions, and some of these may be more appropriate in one of the alternate forums. Anyhow, I have a 26 surface acre lake in Huntsville, Tx.(East Texas). The lake was originally built and then stocked about 15 years ago when I was a young man in high school. We stocked the lake first with fat head minnows, and chub suckers, and then later added CNB, and "Hybrid-Bluegill," and I believe native BG. After about one year, bass were added. I believe the bass were an F-1 cross (possibly a pure florida female, weighing close to 14 lbs., an an extraordinary male, florida crossed with a northern native, just under 7 lbs.). The lake took off amazingly, and in the first several years, the bass fishing was amazing...several bass over 7 lbs., and a known lake record of 12 lbs. As time moved on, I went off to collge, went to law school, and went to work in Houston, and the lake has suffered. The initial problem was too much vegitation in the lake, when the bass were able to just dominate the threadfins we had put in there about yr. # 3.

My questions are the following: (1.) In general how difficult is it to get a lake back to being a trophy LMB lake; (2.) is there such a thing as good/quality Hybrid Bluegill (I have heard that Lusk prefers native BG's over any other forage fish; (3.) what is the likelihood that the only remaining BG are natives, and not a hybrid strain at this point(I've heard that the Hybrids cannot produce as proficiently)?; (4.) How many small bass should I be taking out of there (I routinely catch as many as 30/40 LMG an outing, but all are in the 14" range, less than 1 lb. I am thinking that 200 of these LMB out the lake, may just be getting started. (5.) The lake had minor PH problems back 15 yrs. ago, and the recommended dosage of lime was added to accomodate, maybe as much as 40 tons. How often should you lime a lake of that size, annually, bi-annually? (6.) Should I plan on taking out as many as 400 small bass before using lime, and fertilizing, and restocking my forage base? (7.) Has anyone heard of Alan Rudd of Lone Star Lake Mgmt.? (He did the initial evaluation, and stocking.) (8.) Also, as vegetation became a huge problem in the lake, Grass Carp were added. They are huge, and although they were not supposed to be able to breed, I tend to think otherwise. Should I plan on taking some of these out because now, there is no vegetation. I have added plenty of structure such as 40 X-Mas trees, Pallets, and plan on adding 2 or 3 aqua-cribs for strucure. The lake is heavily timbered anyhow, burshpiles, standing timber and all, and I'm wondering if little to no vegetation would be okay, this being the case.

Thanks to all. Love the website!

Mance

Hi Mance. Welcome to the Pondboss Forum!

I'll let the experts answer, but if there are no crappie, warmouth, bullheads, etc, that found their way into the lake, the outlook is very good. If the species are still the same as original, the solution could be as simple as fertilizing, or reducing the fishing pressure.

Mance welcome to the PB forum.

I recommend you call the PB office and order "Basic Pond Management" and a subscription to the mag. Also the upcoming PB convention would be a good place to hear a lot of experts in one place. TX also has a pond mgt. book on line as do some other states.

To answer some of your questions by number.

1. It can be done with some effort.
2. HBG are usually a cross between a BG and a GSF (Green Sunfish) and they have a low reproductive rate. They have a purpose but are not a good source of LMB forage.
3. Unknown but probably a high % of BG.
4. If you have a LMB crowded pond which it may well be then you will need to take out a good many small 10-12in LMB ( 25 pounds per acre would not be unusual).
5. In the piney woods lime is needed depending on the soil every 3-5 years. Get the soil and water tested. Don't plan on starting a fertilizer program until you know the situation as it could be counterproductive.
6. See 4.
7 NA
8. If you have no veg. then taking out a few carp is ok.

You should read a lot here and think about having a base pond assessment done so you will have a baseline to work from.

Mance, you need 3 things. The first is the goal which you have identified. The next is knowledge of where you currently are. Next is the game plan.

To add to what EWest said re # 4 and 6 above, many fisheries Biologists recommended the culling of every bass caught below 12 to 14 inches in an ESTABLISHED body of water. You can't catch them all. Heck, you can't make a dent.

The base pond assessment he refers to usually includes an electrofishing survey (shock boat) and written analysis by a qualified professional biologist. However, the most important management tool is the creel survey and written log of fishing success by the pond owner. The success of the log is determined by adherence to its use. Poachers could easily skew the results.

I've heard Alan Rudd speak but don't know about his qualifications. Great personality and sense of humor.

Most Biologists will tell you that 20 to 25% vegetation is OK and helps fry escape initial predation.

You might think about the standing timber. It makes a good observation post for water turkeys aka crested cormorants. They are evil and can disrupt progress toward your goals.

I will echo EWests recommendation on the convention. An awful lot of advice and specific answers regarding your goals can be answered there and you will have the chance to talk to various Texas Fisheries Managers. You'll also get to rub elbows with a bunch of amateurs that the Pro's could get some good advice from. I'll add to Ewests advice regarding the book on Basic Pond Management. Order "Raising Trophy Bass" by Lusk.

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. I would love to go to the conference and would love to get my hands on Bob Lusk's books (think he has written several). I begged and pleaded with my girlfriend for a subsription to PB, and for copies of Lusk book, but to no avail. Guess I will have to order them on my own.

Anyway I certainly appreciate all the knowledge and sharing of information here. I just simply cannot believe I ran into this site. It was pure luck, as I happened to be looking for different ways to create bass/forage habitat, and came across this website with a google search.

If anyone gets the chance, there is a great little fishing lake up here in Hunstville called Lake Raven. It is in the Huntsville State Park, and has been a part of the Texas Lunker Program for several years. Lots of really big bass in the lake with good genetics. I plan on fishing Lake Raven a good bit when the weather
improves. Nice to know there are a few East Texas folks on here.

Mance,

I would love to hear what's in your pond. Have you done a "census" of sorts by fishing a lot and/or seining? What is the number and ratio of bass to forage fish? What are their sizes and body condition? Same question for forage fish, and their sizes and body condition? Those are the keys!

Bobad,

I just bought a seine at Academy, and I am highly interested to see what is in the Lake at this point. My guess is the threadfins didn't make it, although they've been stocked twice; once in the beginning, and then after my vegetation problem was rectified. There were also Gizzard Shad added at one point, and I do not know if they have been able to sustain a healthy population in the lake.

As far as fishing, I mainly just bass fish. Since this past Summer, I've personally observed about 300 fish caught out of the lake. Most of these fish were just under 1 lb., and were in the 12"-14" range. My most recent outing was interesting because I caught 3 bass, all over 1 lb. (1.8 oz., 2.6 oz and a 4 #); that was probably just luck, and not the results of my culling efforts.

When I used minnows with a buddy, we did catch 2 or 3 CNB, BG, that were huge. I probably need to set up a feeder to get the BG nice and big, and help them out. Fish feed is also an excellent way to observe what is in the lake--in terms of the forage fish. I certainly plan on grabbing my fly-rods and doing solely a panfish trip...also have an ultra-light.

I was also thinking about what to do with the other lakes on the property. I've got a 3 acre lake, and several .5 acre ponds, and was thinking about making them just forage fish lakes.

I swear to you the 3 acre lake was stocked with F-1 Bass (I put some of the fingerlings in myself), but I think the only thing that made it was the HBG, and CNB. I used to rake up the HBG, and CNB with a fly-rod, but I've never-ever caught a bass out of there when exclusively fishing for them. I'm guessing the Water Turkeys had something to do with it, possibly a small gator that was in there for a while.

I suggest you send a PM or email to Bob and get an assessment done on your ponds and visit with him about the collective use of the ponds. A 3 acre pond will produce a lot of extra forage but it takes some work and for that matter so will a 1/2 acre pond.

You really should go to the PB convention. You could learn a lot in a short period including some creative methods and approaches. For example one ,of the approximate 15 to 20 topics , will be presented by a premier Fisheries Science Prof. and will be by on electrofishing and other pond survey methods (seining , creel surveys etc).

One or two.