Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking CNBG Adventure

My wife and I cleared Dallas cross- town traffic yesterday morning early enough to meet Todd and Kathy Overton in Buffalo for breakfast.
We proceeded to Overton’s fish farm to pick up some CNBG.

Todd invited me to accompany him on his morning rounds to inspect ponds and fish being grown out for the market.

He especially wanted me to see his 10,000, 3-4 inch HSB that are being grown out to large sizes for fall and winter pond stocking, as well as feed-trained LMB, and ponds full of tilapia, to be wintered over for spring stocking.

It was a sight to behold. His rectangular ponds are arranged side by side, and when he would approach the ponds, he would honk his pick-up truck horn, and the fish would form a gigantic school awaiting feed.

They would go a feeding frenzy when he tossed a scoop-full of feed.

If any folks ever have an opportunity to visit a fish farm, it is an educational and enjoyable experience.

I picked up 13 of Overton Fisheries adult CNBG (instant gratification :p ) to add to our Arkansas/Tyler fish Farm CNBG genetic mix, which are expected to be a prized combination.

The female CNBG were picked up yesterday, and the male CNBG was caught at our pond this morning.

We should get October and November spawns if the weather returns to normal fall pattern.


Female CNBG


Male CNBG

Neat, george. I hadn't considered fed fish becoming sound-trained instead of just sight-trained, but it makes sense they would do so.

May I ask what is taped to the bill of your cap? Emergency Slim Jim?

Flip-down magnifyiing glasses for tired, old, worn out eyes, but emegency Slim Jim's might work as well...

Those are really good looking fish. I wish we could have some around here.

You are right George. Visits to the hatchery are great fun.

I like that helmet head male CNBG. Those copper nose bars sure make them easy to id when spawning. Be sure to look for wider vertical bars, yellow/orange fins/tails , white/light fin/tail piping and count those fin rays when checking CNBG.

George was the truck close enough to the pond for the fish to see when Todd honked ? Sound is different in water. Travels faster but does not go no far before it dissipates. I wonder if it was vibration (low frequency)and sight. Sound connected to the water like a bang on the side of a boat or stomping around the pond edge or a truck driving up are transmitted by vibration into the water but unconnected noise like a hand clap has little effect on or penetration into water.

Eric, Todd began honking at one end of pond to the other where he hand fed. I believe the vibration of the truck had as much effect as the truck horn - smart HSB - I ordered 25 for late fall/early winter supplemnental stocking.

Here's a close-up of the same fish.
Are you saying this isn't a coppernose - I've never paid much attention to BG until Baird/Condello/Cody got me interested.
I thought they were just forage
9 and 10 inch BG are common in our pond.

George is the male fish in both pics above the same fish ? The top one (a CNBG) has a copper bar across his head and wide bars and it looks like light tail edge. Can't tell much on the bottom pic. It seems to have wide bars. Look at this thread for a bunch of pics and discussion.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002562;p=1

Here is some text from that thread.

Coppernose bluegill have been around for a long time. They are only one of three recognized subspecies of bluegill (lepomis macrochirus). Coppernose (lepomis macrochirus purpurescens) is native to Peninsular of Florida. Coppernose bluegill have 12 soft rays on their anal fin as opposed to 11 soft rays found on the regular bluegill. Coppernose have fewer but wider vertical bars on their sides than do regular (common or native ) bluegill. Coppernose also have orange margins to their fins. Male coppernose has a broad copper band above the eye or forehead and are prominent during spawning season. Reproduction of the Coppernose is about the same as with most all bluegill.

The Coppernose bluegill is known for its colorful markings. The fins of the coppernose have a reddish orange fringe outline with a pencil thin white border. The vertical bars on the sides are more distinct and broader especially in the young. The distinct copper band across the head which is brilliant on the male is the reason for the common name "coppernose".

THE COPPERNOSE BLUEGILL (CNBG) IS ALSO A FLORIDA STRAIN. IT IS EASILY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE NORTHERN BLUEGILL BY ITS COLORATION AND MARKINGS. THE FINS OF THE CNBG ARE REDDISH-ORANGE WITH A THIN WHITE MARGIN. THE TYPICAL VERTICAL BAR PATTERN OF THE BLUEGILL IS PRONOUNCED IN THE COPPERNOSE, AND VERY DISTINCTIVE. ADULT MALES HAVE A BROAD COPPER BAND ACROSS THE HEAD THAT IS THE TRADEMARK OF THE STRAIN.

eric , your observation must be correct – you are GOOD…..!

I saved a couple of the larger CNBG - put them in my oxygenated live well for photos later, and must have mixed up the photos.
I think this is the correct photo?

My enjoyment of our pond is for fun and fishing, not counting anal soft fin rays.
Life is too short, as well as my span of attention – I’ll leave that to the pros…! :p

George :

No matter how we approach it , whether counting rays or flippin a fly or frying a fish, they are still beautiful fish. Thanks for the pics.

I've been contrasting the pic of that gorgeous (georgeous?) CNBG above with Bruce's 10.25" Northern (CS)BG at Another Record Fish.

Maybe it's just these two, but does it seem to anyone else that big, heavy CNBG put more of their bulk on above the mouth than big, heavy Northern BG do? IOW, with two fish of the same length and size, does the CNBG's mouth seem lower than the Northern BG's mouth?

Trying to state the hypothesis a third way:
Big CNBG = big shoulders/helmet, small belly.
Big northern BG = big shoulders/helmet (maybe not quite as big as the CNBG's) AND big belly.

I'll have to search for some other big BG/CNBG pics and see if the relationship holds up.

PERFECT examples, ewest. With the Northern BG in the bottom pic - the mouth is virtually dead center top-to-bottom. With the CNBG in the top pic - the split is more like 60-40 with noticeably more CNBG above the mouth than below.

So - if I'm right CNBG have bigger helmets, Northern BG have balanced helmet and breastplate sizes. Probably due to a difference in gladiatorial styles .

If they were warmblooded, I'd think it was due to adding mass to the belly area for insulation up North. As it is - ???

You'd need a bigger helmet too if you spent all day getting your @*% kicked by redear sunfish.

Hhmmm -- look at the forward (anterior) end of lateral line on both fish.

On the CNBG it is at the top of the opercular flap (ear tab). On the BG it is well above the ear tab.

Bruce you must mean your head kicked by RES thus the bigger helmet. :p

I believe the flat belly of 09-14-06 CNBG is due to stress caused by the 2nd hottest summer recorded in Texas history, as well as low water conditions.

Spring 03-10-06 CNBG has round belly.

The March CNBG definitely has a bigger belly, george, but I still measure a top/bottom disparity, 2 "screen scale" inches above the nose versus 1.75 "screen scale" inches below the nose, which clearly shows in these magic marker lines I've drawn over the image on my monitor. Oops, good thing I'm at work.

Anyway, that's about a 53/47 split and is not nearly as noticeable. Perhaps it's all on current conditions of the individual fish (amount of fat stored in abdomen).

What's anyone else think?

It depends on which and how many of the anglers fingers were bitten off and swallowed by the giants just before the pic. The ones with small stomachs were picked up with a boga grip. :p

That last CNBG pic by George looks like it was mashed flat by a truck tire. So fat and plate like it is about to bust out of its skin.

Is this fish for real?!? It's so tall it almost looks like a distorted photo!

That's impressive.

Yep - it's for real alright.
Recon we can get Cecil to accept width as well as length for his record book?
Bet some of the wide ones will outweight the longer ones?

Ignore that little bitty tail and I swear the body is taller than it is long. I dream of BG like that. The nicest ones I catch look just like that until they stop moving and my eyes focus - then they're 8" long.

This has become a great thread for big BG pics!

And George only thinks of CNBG as forage, huh? Show us some of the predators for those guys. :rolleyes:

I thought we established long ago that bluegill was just another name for "bait".

Bruce, you're the only guy I know whose long term memory approaches mine....Now, what were we discussing?

Is there any advantage to stocking CNBG fingerlings (or any type) from two or more suppliers at the same time?? Just wondering if it would improve genetics and the possibilty of growing better fish.
Or do you just go with the cheapest and assume you're "good to go".

Welcome Shep to the PB forum. Glad you joined us.

The most important thing is to find a very good and trustworthy hatchery with people who know what they are doing and will answer questions. If you can find 2 or 3 even better. IMO price should not be the major factor. Knowing what you are getting and about the brood stock from which they came and that they come from a similar climate is much more important IMO.

The mixing of genetics question is a much harder. Here is why. When you buy from hatchery X the fish may be from 10 pair of brood stock or just 1. If X's are from 10 unrelated pair and of good genetics that may be better than buying from Y and Z who's fish are from 1 pair each , at least for diversity of genetics reasons. Here is another point. You never know for sure about genetics -- are X's fish better than Y or Z's , unless you can tie other purchasers fish back to the brood stock and compare them from the same pond and time period. Very hard to get and apples to apples comparison.

I personally like to mix up the genetics after careful study of what I am doing as set out above. That does not mean you always get better results.

First things first. Most of the success of growing good fish is water quality and forage/fertility with a smaller part being fish genetics. Unless you have the first the second does not make a lot of difference. When you have the first then the second can make a significant difference.

ewest, thanks for the insight, sounds like it would be time well spent to visit a couple of hatcheries and to check them out, see what there operation looks like and how well they can answer questions. As opposed to ordering fish with a phone call and picking them up at a drop point. If you or someone could help with some basic questions to ask when I visit that would be very helpful. I'm certian when I visit the first one the "awe" factor will prevent me from asking any intelligent questions.

When I first wanted a pond I really did not have a clue where to start. This forum and the PB mag are a valuable resource for all. At some point I will try to post some pictures to see if the jury thinks I'm getting too crazy with my structure.

Thanks again for your advise and time to help the rest of us out.

Best advice :

1. Read a lot here on stocking and when you get to the hatchery be interested in their story. Most are glad to tell you what and how they do things. Play dumb and see if what they say makes sense or is a sales job.

2. Ask them for a pond owner reference and check it out.

3. Post here and see if anyone knows them.

4. Tell them about PB , 3/4 of the way through the visit. That should clue them in that you are serious and not subject to being fooled.

5. Ask them about their fish and stock. Do they grow all their own fish (no contract fish surprises).

6. Take some pics.

7. Tell them what you want and see what they say.

8. Let them know that you want to observe the fish as delivered before stocking and take a few pics and measurements (if stocking other than 2 inch fish).

9. Get a written description of what you order/stock. #s , type and size.

Be nice about it - they will be spending a bunch of their time to sell you a few fish.

I wonder whether or not you should mention the Pond Boss Forum on your initial visits to a given hatchery.

There are some hatcheries that, due to their own actions, are at odds with the forum. Many of these hatcheries give stocking recommendations that don't jive with the experience base/brain trust here on the forum.

While you would not want to follow such a hatcheries recommendations, you may still want to source specific fish from them.

Asking about a hatchery here on the forum is invaluable.

ewest and Sunil, thanks for the tips. Based on what I've seen around and on the net I will probably check out Suttles, Delta Aquaculture, and Shepherd's. Dunn's delivers to a location close to here, but I have a hard time believing that a truck ride from OK to BRLA is good for fish and they are more expensive than the others. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated..
ewest, don't know what part of Miss you live in but, I travel LA and Miss weekly for work, so if you you know of any hatcheries/suppliers in southern MS I should check out please let me know either here or through a private message.

Thanks, again..

Shep, if you order from an Arkansas stocker(I think Dunns is in Ar. not OK.), call them and find out what their delivery schedule is. I was able to get fish on Monday AM in SW Miss. The truck left Sunday from the hatchery. Not too bad. They were in very good condition. Delta, formerly Dixie, in Liberty, Ms. has a good biologist/owner, name is Picard, but the phone staff is so incompetent I have picked up fish from the coop. in Tylertown 45 min. away when they never got back with info and never had the owner call back. I will next try a hatchery in Lumberton Ms. Go to the MSU pond management site, they have a list of hatcheries and what they stock. Have heard good things about Suttles. There has to be some hatcheries close to you. Delta used to be in Clinton, La. I believe. They have someone in S.E. La. I think.

B-meister, thanks for the input, I assume your pond is not in H-town if you are buying fish over here. The problem is the smaller hatcheries are not on the web so it's hard to locate any that are close. LSU ag center's list is very short and MSU's is mostly, MS. I assume the one in Lumberton is Slade's, I drive past there once or twice a week for work, so I might check them out sometime. I would like to believe that if I could pick the fish up at the hatchery and have them back to my pond in a couple of hours that would be best. It also seemed like Dunn's was one of the most expensive. I think Delta/Dixie's other farm is in Houma which is further than the ones in MS.

That's right, Shep. Slades's is the one. If you stop by and talk to them, please post your opinions. My pond is in Tylertown, Ms., which is on hwy 98 between McComb and Columbia. Slades's interested me because the MSU list says they have bluecats. Good luck.

I buy from Slades and found them reliable and honest. Lost some fish one time and they made it good as they had placed them in the pond.

thanks, Paul. That's good enough endorsesment for me! I know you have lots of cats. Did you get any blues?

No Blues but I have lots of others and the fishing should be good next year. I AM STILL HAND FEEDING THE CAT FISH. Cap lock got hit. The bream are doing good and should produce lots of eating fish for large mouth and cats.

Went to lake Norman today for a little while to try to catch CNBG. Didnt catch any CNBG today but got a bunch of very nice RES and a bunch of common BG. I have a quick question about one of the BG. It looked very similar to a regular BG, small mouth, small ear flap, everything said it was a BG but it was so colorful kinda looked fake. I wasnt sure if reg BG get like that or if it was a differnt strain or what but since it had a small mouth I took it.

Joey,

I have some very uniquely colored native BG in a couple of ponds that have "evolved" here for many years without any external genetics being introduced. I call them golden BG because they are a spectacular golden color that I haven't seen anywhere else in BG. The reason for saying all that is to say that BG can and do take on very different colorations.

OK good because this fish was I am pretty sure a regular BG with fabulios coloring. Pinks and blues and purples, bright orange. It was a very clown looking.

Here is a little of the variation ML is talking about.

All are very nice. The fish today was a much much lighter/brighter. I caught a bunch of BG today and this was the only one like this. Did you ever see the tropical fish there called blue ram. This BG was along the coloring of the Blue ram. Well anyways, it was a really nice looking fish. He or she is there new home.