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Ok, so I find myself selling water for drilling operations. This is all coming out of my pond. I have already sold water for 10 cents a barrel for one site. The company offered me a nickel a barrel and I countered with a quarter. They said they couldn't pay me that and countered a dime a barrel...... I live in central Oklahoma and we have been suffering through a drought. I just don't have a clue as to what to charge these folks for future operations in the area. I know that trucking water in would be expensive, but without rain, my pond will be bone dry by July or August! It doesn't rain much in those two months and the temperatures sore into the 100's! We average 35 inches of rain in these parts in a normal year. I understand that places in the South receive much more rain and pond water will probably be cheaper, but this is Oklahoma where people pray for rain, especially farmers. I need some direction here folks. I have a deep pond, but my shoreline is down to less than an acre and this pond used to be 1.5 acres in size! The pond is stocked with Channel Cats, Largemouth Bass, and Hybrid Bluegill. I don't want to lose my fish and pond over a couple thousand dollars.......... Help! What should I ask for in return? Thanks folks....




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I don't know much about the price of water in OK, but I would figure out what I had invested in fish and everything else(just in case you lose some fish) and then figure how many barrels of water would take me down to about half full. After that I would divide my investment by the number of barrels and tell them that's what I want or go buy it somewhere else.

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How many barrels are they going to need?

If they needed 1,000, you would make $100. That would equal 55,000 gallons. I think I would tell them to get water elsewhere. It's too hard to come by in dry areas to let them dictate the terms.


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Let me start off by saying that I don't know the first thing about drilling, and selling water. Not a lot of that goes on in Indiana. But I am very curious as to how such an arrangement would work.
Are you under any obligation to sell them your water, or is it strictly voluntary on the part of the landowner? Do you have a reason for wanting to stay on their good side? Do you stand to gain anything other than the price paid to you for your water?

My reason for asking is this: according to my math, if you were to sell water at 10 cents a barrel, and made $2000.00, then they will have removed 1,100,000 gallons from your pond. On a 1.5 acre BOW, that will drop the depth by over 2 feet, exposing a lot of shoreline.

If I were under no obligation to sell them the water, there is no way I would let it go that cheap, if I would even sell it at all. Which, under the drought circumstances you spoke of, would not be very likely.

Also, besides doing the math and computing the area of exposed shoreline to get a rough idea, how do you know how much water they take? Do you take their word on it, or is it metered somehow? Seems like an arrangement that would benefit the company far more than the pond owner.

On a different note, with two limited reproducing species such as CC and HBG as the primary forage for your LMB, I would think the bass might be a little on the thin side. If you don't mind me asking, what are your management goals, and how is it working out?


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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Let me start off by saying that I don't know the first thing about drilling, and selling water. Not a lot of that goes on in Indiana. But I am very curious as to how such an arrangement would work.
Are you under any obligation to sell them your water, or is it strictly voluntary on the part of the landowner? Do you have a reason for wanting to stay on their good side? Do you stand to gain anything other than the price paid to you for your water?

My reason for asking is this: according to my math, if you were to sell water at 10 cents a barrel, and made $2000.00, then they will have removed 1,100,000 gallons from your pond. On a 1.5 acre BOW, that will drop the depth by over 2 feet, exposing a lot of shoreline.

If I were under no obligation to sell them the water, there is no way I would let it go that cheap, if I would even sell it at all. Which, under the drought circumstances you spoke of, would not be very likely.

Also, besides doing the math and computing the area of exposed shoreline to get a rough idea, how do you know how much water they take? Do you take their word on it, or is it metered somehow? Seems like an arrangement that would benefit the company far more than the pond owner.

On a different note, with two limited reproducing species such as CC and HBG as the primary forage for your LMB, I would think the bass might be a little on the thin side. If you don't mind me asking, what are your management goals, and how is it working out?


Well, here's what I have in mind. I plan on enlarging the pond. I also plan on clearing it. It looks like watered down tomato soup. I told the drilling company to take all the red water, but leave the clear. LOL! Sorry, I've had a beer or two tonight. The pond is down about 5 ft., but still has a hole that's 13 ft. deep. I'd like to drop the level even more, dredge the bottom and level out the deep spots so that it isn't deeper than 12 ft. when bank full. I plan on putting rip-rap along the dam and place Bermuda sod on top of the dam. I want to gravel the bottom and place sod wherever runoff is an issue as to not silt in the pond with more red clay. I'd also like to dig down to the spring that oozes water into the pond and get it dumping at least 500 gallons a day vs. a few gallons a day. The pond has no structure so I plan on sinking/anchoring some red cedars. I may place some larger boulders in some spots for more structure....... I've been holding off on a lot of expense until I get my Farm Tax ID #. I got that in the mail yesterday and this will save me money on my investments in my land and pond. I pay no tax for anything farm related. This includes alum, hydrated lime, rock, fish food, fish etc........ I'm working on a contract with West Star Drilling right now. They took out 12,500 barrels(42 gallons)when they initially drilled. This second need for water was used for hydro-fracking the well. It required 60,000 barrels, much more water and my pond wouldn't support their needs. They want to dredge the pond, drill a water well, and keep my pond bank full for future needs. They said they'd take care of stocking the fish, too. I have 40 acres here and am retired, at the age of 54. My goal is to serve the needs of the drilling company while maintaining an aesthetically pleasing/appealing pond for my kids and grandchildren when they come to visit. I want fish so I can eat some from time to time......Oh, and another issue is runoff during rains. If I get an inch of rain, the pond rises just a tad over that, maybe two inches max. If I drill a water well, this wouldn't be an issue, but I believe I need more runoff anyway..... There is no vegetation in the pond and this is also a concern that needs to be addressed. No matter how I look at it, I've got a lot of homework, negotiations, and work ahead of me. Again, I'm thankful for finding this site and will get deeper involved and donate in the future. Right now I have my hands full with construction of a house, a tornado shelter, a pole barn, and a "Man Cave", to get away from my Okie, squaw bride when she's on the warpath! LOL! Thanks for your interest and input.......




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It sounds like a heck of a deal. Personally, I'd see if I can get the pond deeper if possible. Ponds have a tendancy to fill in over time (or a short length of time like mine did) and having it deeper will lengthen the time until you have to dredge it out again. I dug mine to 22' depth, and within a month Hurricane Ike washed in about 3 to 4 feet of sediment. this winter I had low water going into the winter, and I ended up having between 11 and 12 feet of water in the pond under the ice.

Will the well have enough capacity (GPM) to fill the pond? Will the $$ gained by selling the water be more than enough to pay for the electricity to run the well?


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Won't the deep water establish a thermocline? Isn't this dangerous to the fish for a small pond? A water well from my aquifer will be like turning on your city water tap. I'd venture that its close to 20 gallons a minute??????? My theory is that with the Bermuda grass and rock around the edges that silt wouldn't be that big of an issue. Leaves in the Fall would be a bigger concern to me. I'm going to get someone from the State of Oklahoma to come advise me on what to do and expect. They do this for free and I believe it would give me some much needed guidance on achieving my goals. I figure that between them and this forum, I'll be a Certified Pondologist in no time! LOL! I'll post some before and after pics on here so you folks can oooooh and awww over my little pond! LOL!




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I forgot.......yeah, I'm gonna hit them up for the electric bill on that 10 acres since the only electricity used will be for pond water replenishment.




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I would make sure, contractually, that they continue to pay the electric bill. How much can the well produce? One acre of water, one inch deep, is 27,000 gallons. The cost of running the well might just unretire a 54 year old Okie.

Tell us more about the spring. Depending on location(depth) those things can be a bigger liability than asset.

All ponds establish a thermocline and the fish spend most of their life above it. That's where the oxygen is.

Some guys from the State are OK and others only understand crops and things that go moo.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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This is a new industry and it's hitting PA also.


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"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Yes with a deep pond a thermocline will be established if no aeration is present. But, that allows the thermocline room to move up and down if the water level does the same, where in a shallow pond you might run out of water in dry times if the well won't support the pond. My well pumps 28 gpm, and with the sandy soil it is barely enough to keep the pond at one level, let alone fill it during low water times of the year. 50 to 100 gpm would be a whole lot better.

To replace one acre foot of water would take running a 20 gpm well 271 hours. (325851 gallons)


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Well the spring is pretty much just a wet area on the east side of the pond. It's quite sandy over there and I believe the spring just oozes maybe a couple gallons of water a day. I'm not sure that even constitutes being advertised as "spring fed", but it sure was a selling point when I purchased the property! LOL! Maybe it does better during the wet season, I don't know. I just purchased this land back in July of 2010 so this pond is still a mystery to me.......The 5 inches of rain we received a week ago didn't really raise the water level as much as I'd hoped. Maybe I need to do some dozer work so I can capture more runoff. The sand is at least 4 foot deep on top of the hill on the east side of the pond. Maybe with the dry weather, it needs to totally saturate before the pond gets any runoff. Here are some pics of the pond. They were taken in March before anything greened up. The dam is on the west side of the pond. Thanks again for your interest, expertise, and helpful input.

Attached Images
Pond pics 010.JPG Pond pics 005.JPG Pond pics 007.JPG Pond pics 011.JPG



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Here are some more pics. The 1st one in the previous post is looking west off the top of the dam. You all probably figured that I didn't have any water left at all! LOL! Pic #3 shows the "spring" feed into the pond


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Pond pics 001 - Copy.JPG Pond pics 003.JPG Pond pics 004.JPG Pond pics 006.JPG
Last edited by Okie Bob; 05/12/11 12:47 PM.



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Thanks for the pictures.... that is some red water you have there!


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Originally Posted By: Bossone
Thanks for the pictures.... that is some red water you have there!


Yeah, but I plan on "fixin" that problem. Right now, I'm trying to get the drilling company to pick up the tab on some of the rock and such so I don't have to go to the bank and apply for a Pond Improvement Loan! LOL!




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Update:
Well the "powers that be" from the drilling company came by yesterday afternoon. Their plans are to dredge the pond, while also expanding the pond to the east, something I'd already planned to do myself. They also want to slope the east side to capture more runoff from rains and possibly dig another well on the 10 acres where the pond exists. They are also considering building another pond on the west side, below the dam. The land slopes down towards the west, from the dam, and it was my intention to build another pond down there, anyway. Right now, it's all in the planning stage. There is a private gravel road that is maintained by my neighbor and I, that split our properties. They would maintain that road for us. They would restock the existing pond and stock the new pond with fish. This all sounds good to me. Maybe I get get them to kick in the alum and hydrated lime. LOL!




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Wow good for you I hope it all works out for you. Like you thought your water is worth more then they were paying if they want to do all that for you.


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How long will they be using the water? Or, when does it start benefiting you? With them sucking it out, stocking could get iffy.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
How long will they be using the water? Or, when does it start benefiting you? With them sucking it out, stocking could get iffy.

They're wanting exclusive water rights for 3-5 years. I get $500 a year. Every time they lay pipe to drain water, I get $250. They will also pay for the water they use, but it drops to a nickel a barrel since they are gonna be doing all these improvements. Seems like a good plan. Hell, I hope they hit the mother lode of oil! Not only do I benefit, we all will by reducing our need for foreign oil and reducing the price we pay at the pump. I'll be posting before, during, and after pics of the progress. I know you guys like to look at pics. LOL! I'll keep you all informed on the finer details. Again, thanks and have a great day!




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I would make sure there is a limit they can take say 40% of pond volume from full pool. Also if you don't know alot about building ponds you should get a pond comstant to make sure it's done right.


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If you don't limit the amount of water they can take you will likely have very little water for 3-5 years.
















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Maybe this is a good thing, but I get a bad vibe about this. Hopefully things work out for you.


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The nicest guy in the world is a Landman. However, when the paperwork is signed, he's gone.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 05/14/11 07:19 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Who pays for electricity to fill the pond once it's drained?


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