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#257771 - 05/06/11 03:03 PM How many fat head minnows in a pound
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Can someone tell me how many fathead minnows are in a pound? I have a 1 acre pond that I am going to start with FHM and YP this spring, and then add SMB in the fall. It was suggested, by Bill Cody to start with 200-300 YP and FHM. Does it matter how many fat heads? My supplier sells by the pound, just wondering how many come in a pound and how many to throw in the pond.

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#257773 - 05/06/11 03:32 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Ok I dug around a bit an found the answer to how many FHM in a pound - 2-300. Any ideas to how many I should stock to establish new YP/SMB? My pound is 6 years old and coming off of a winter kill.

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#257774 - 05/06/11 03:32 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
Bill Cody Offline
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As usual it ALL DEPENDS. It depends on how big the FHM are. Huge numbers/lb if they are hatchlings not so many if they are old breeders, which in the north, in the spring, most sold are older fish of 2.2"-3" usually 250 to 150/lb depending on FHM length. Plan on 200-250 per lb. In the fall new crop FHM are usually somewhat smaller 1.7-2.2" and 350-250/lb,

If you are going to stock FHM in spring in a new pond with just YP fingerlings 3"-4" plan on at least 8-10 lb per acre. Fingerling YP will not eat adult FHM until the YP get 6"-9"; depending on if YP are 'on pellets' and if YOY FHM are present. YP if given a choice at 6"-9" prefer the 1"-1.5" minnow. If you stock some YP at 4"-6" or 6"-8" add a few more FHM to allow for predation. Without significant submerged weed cover FHM will usually not thrive more than 2-3 yrs with soley YP as predators, shorter time if other predators are present.

It would be good if you can also establish a 2nd or 3rd prey item because FHM will not last long in a pond with YP And SMB. One way to maintain forage fish longer is to keep the YP and SMB at lower numbers thus they do not consume as many fish. Or if you can use pellet trained YP and feed them pellets that also helps reduce the predatory pressure on the FHM. Crayfish with rock piles are a good food item to stock early before SMB are adults. Some marginal or submerged weeds (10%-25%) can be beneficial as cover and extending the life span for small forage fish.

Establishing golden shiners is another possibility, although I am not a big fan of GSH if 'bobber fishing' is planned. Larger GSH are bait stealers and a nuisance. I have seen in some ponds where YP, SMB and a few HBG work okay esp if pellets are fed. Establish YP & HBG in spring and SMB in fall or the next year.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 09:39 AM)
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#257777 - 05/06/11 04:04 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Thanks Bill, this is good information. I would like to stock some crayfish, but haven't found any sellers in my area. Perhaps I couldn't find someone to ship to me? Do you know any suppliers that ship?

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#257785 - 05/06/11 06:07 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
FRIZ Offline
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Registered: 12/16/09
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Loc: IN
Smith Creek Fish Farm LLC

http://www.smithcreekfishfarm.com/index.html

Paper Shell Crayfish

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#257800 - 05/06/11 09:33 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: FRIZ]
Bill Cody Offline
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IMO - papershell are the preferred crayfish for ponds.
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#257817 - 05/07/11 08:45 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Thanks Bill, I went to the smith creek farm site to look at his crayfish prices. He suggests a few koi to keep the weeds and algae down? Is there any truth in that. We occasionally have algae bloom during hot summers and low water periods, that we treated with chemicals, safe for fish and wildlife. Will a Koi really help in weed control?

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#257820 - 05/07/11 09:03 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
esshup Offline
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No, koi won't help. Well, I take that back. They might help by stirring up the water, making the pond muddier, therefore cutting down the light that reaches the pond bottom, which will reduce the weed growth.

There are other, better ways to reduce sunlight penetration. wink
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#257823 - 05/07/11 09:24 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
MidSouth Offline


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 17
Loc: NC
Hey StaciMN,

When koi are juveniles they will eat FA as will GC but once they get bigger they move on to other plants. The crayfish you want to order are opportunistic omnivores so they will eat some of the FA. Your best bet is to do just what your doing with spraying to get rid of the FA.

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#257824 - 05/07/11 09:29 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: MidSouth]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Ok thanks everyone. Again, I did some more digging (I get too impatient) on the site and found a lot of info about controlling algae. I am hoping to stock FHM, Crayfish and YP in the next few weeks. Than some SMB (and perhaps a few WE) in the Fall or next year. Looking forward to seeing how it all works out.

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#257826 - 05/07/11 09:37 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: MidSouth]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Spend your money on crayfish instead of koi. You don't want koi reproducing and creating muddy water. Koi are omnivours eating a lot of benthic invertebrates and are aquatic pigs rooting up the sediments and roiling the water in their search for food. The more koi you have the muddier the water becomes. I doubt very much that YP-SMB can prey on all koi reproduced.

IF you are "green" minded people consider Peroxygen Carbonate as an algicide (Phycomycin, Green Clean, Pak 27); very environmentally friendly. Keep us informed of your pond's progress. I would like to know when you have your first meal of yellow perch fillets. Keep an eye on the numbers of SMB. If you want more YP reduce the numbers of SMB, fewer YP then protect and increase SMB or manually thin YP.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 09:43 AM)
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#257833 - 05/07/11 09:57 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Will 100 crayfish be enough for first stocking?

Also I am confused on the variety of FHM and Shiners. On the Smtih Crrek Site, he has FHM and Rosy Reds - I assume these are all FHM. Just different varieties? And he lists "shiners" - are they all the same, as in GSH? I would like to have some forage diversity, but it looks a if my options are FHM and Crayfish to start with. I am a little leery of the GSH due to size and eating habits.

I am looking forward to my fist perch meal. Patience if a virtue, they say.

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#257839 - 05/07/11 10:19 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Rosey reds are a color strain of FHM. They will be eaten first due to their being more noticed. Generally all farm raised shiners are GSH. Shiners from the local bait shop could include wild caught shiners depending on the sources for the bait shop.

Crayfish - since your pond is new and if you have rock pile shelters and are stocking fingerling fish then 25-50 crayfish per 0.5 ac will be enough to seed the pond. More is okay. Generally the crayfish population will be proportionate to the amount of cover and habitat that they have to live in. They trive best in large rockpiles placed in the shallows and at the shoreline. It will be almost 2 yrs before the YP can eat an adult crayfish. This will give the crayfish a good head start providing your habitat is good and numerous offspring survive. Once you introduce SMB, they mature, then will key-in on foraging on crayfish and noticably reduce their numbers.

Forage diversity can also come from a few HBG. They reproduce minimally, grow well and large enough for table use. Many people can't 'tell' them from pure bluegill. Low reproduction is because most of the original stockers are males - maybe 1-2 females per 10 fish. Subsequent generations may have a higher percentage of females. If you harvest quite a few of them you will have to periodically restock to keep some larger ones present. Fish them hard if you don't like them and you can practically eliminate them.
See this summary about HBG if you have not already read it.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 10:28 AM)
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#257840 - 05/07/11 10:38 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
StaciMN Offline


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 14
Loc: NW Minnestoa
Ok so here is my stocking plan for my 1 acre pond

Spring:
FHM -10 lbs
HBG 3-4"- 50? 100?(4-6" is also avail)
YP-3-4" 200 (4-6" is also abail)
Crayfish 100

FALL
SMB?
FHM if needed

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#257844 - 05/07/11 11:38 AM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I would look into buying some of these plants (20-100) while the pond is getting established.
Near the bottom of the thread - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=257834#Post257834

These plants will help protect the FHM. It will be good habitat. If you want to see how they 'do' before planting into the pond. First put 10-16 planted in garden soil in a dishpan submerged in 16"-28"of water. Allow them to grow and spread in the pan 6 mo - 2 yrs. Transplant into the pond.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 11:41 AM)
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#257851 - 05/07/11 01:08 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Bill:

At what water temp do the papershells become active and start foraging around in the pond? I heard that they burrow and sort of "hibernate" for the winter.

If 100 or so were stocked in a 1 ac pond with no predators last Fall, do you think any would show up in a wire minnow trap if baited with a can of cat food and placed in the shallows for 24 hr?
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#257871 - 05/07/11 03:20 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: StaciMN]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 10192
Loc: northern VA
Originally Posted By: StaciMN
Ok so here is my stocking plan for my 1 acre pond

Spring:
FHM -10 lbs
HBG 3-4"- 50? 100?(4-6" is also avail)
YP-3-4" 200 (4-6" is also abail)
Crayfish 100

FALL
SMB?
FHM if needed


There is no need to buy the larger HBG. The 3-4" size in fine now. When you go to restock, then it might be prudent to stock larger fingerlings as it will reduce the number of fish that get eaten by already present fish. IMO you also don't want them to spawn before your SMB and YP are established in the pond. You want most if not all of their offspring eaten.
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#257873 - 05/07/11 03:27 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: CJBS2003]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Stock larger fish only if you want a jump start on growth, thus larger fish for harvest quicker. stocking larger fish usually requires having a well established food base for them or else one does not realize the added benefit & expense of using larger stockers. Fingerlings should be fine for your purposes. YP at 3"-4" stocked in your pond now should be 5"-8" by fall. IF not, there was not enough food for them. Young perch will grow fast if there is enough food for them. It is mostly all about food supply. Plan on a spawn of YP in spring of 2012. Ideally you don't want a lot of that spawn to survive (maybe only 100) and result in overcrowded YP who do not have enough food to grow well. Thin, thin, thin, the small perch.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 03:32 PM)
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#257875 - 05/07/11 03:35 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Only 100 Crayfish in a one acre pond will be rare to catch in baited traps unless you can set traps where crays are hiding (rock piles). They should become farily active when water temps get to 55-60F. You should notice more small crayfish (first brood) in trapping mid-late summer of 2011 if predation is not 'high'.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/07/11 03:37 PM)
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#257882 - 05/07/11 04:17 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: Bill Cody]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Thanks Bill. No predators, only fingerling YP and RES in 1 pond, fingerling BG in another. No bass yet. No rockpiles either, and no submerged weeds. There are 4-6 rootballs in each pond.
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#257913 - 05/07/11 09:43 PM Re: How many fat head minnows in a pound [Re: esshup]
Bill Cody Offline
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Set traps near rootballs maybe they have used them as refuge. Crays will do much better surviving predation if there are rock concrete piles.
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