Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Fathead Minnow Questions

I have a 2 acre pond with 6-8 inch YP and LMB. I have just discovered in another pond close by tons and tons of FHM. I am thinking about trapping as many as possible and transplanting in my bass pond. The Bass pond has great vegetation protection and also a good area where the water is only about 12 inches deep. I was thing of throwing some pallets there for FHM spawning. My goal is to get my LMB as big as I can up here in Montana. I don't have access to any fisheries for other types of forage fish. Only what I can trap or catch from other ponds.(I live in an extremely rural area.) Any hint or help on establishing my FHM. I am not really interested on feeding the fish pellet as the fish arent trained. Any other ideas would be great.

You're limiting yourself with fathead minnows and even with cover and spawning habitat I doubt they'll be around very long. The problem is they are so slow moving and are easily wiped out by bass. On top of that they don't provide large enough forage for larger bass as the fatheads top out at a very small size. For a balanced bass population of all sizes you need progressively larger forage.

See if you can locate golden shiners, they are a more sustainable forage and get bigger feeding bigger bass...

While not cheap, Andersons will ship golden shiners.

If your goal is larger LMB I think you should consider more closely managing your fishery by selectively harvesting your bass and monitoring their 'status'. The philosophy is to remove more smaller & medium sized bass thus reducing the predatory pressure on the YP and this will increase the amount of larger forage (YP) for the remaining bass that should be growing better with less competition from other bass. Too many hogs feeding at the trough results in slower growth and smaller average size. LMB should grow well on a diet of YP. Plan on LMB being able to eat a YP 1/2 the length of the bass, although predominate prey size will probably be somewhat closer to 30-40% of the bass length.

More bass in your pond results in fewer larger YP,, not a good thing if you want larger bass. More bass reduces the overall food availablity for growing fewer larger bass, providing fewer bass (less competition) are present. I think if you can remove more bass per acre while adding the fatheads, the extra FHM will stimulate YP and small bass production providing not too many bass are present. The fishery dominated by larger bass should target YP and some smaller bass instead of the biger bass eating mostly smaller FHM. Focus on heavy removal of small bass (6"-14"?) to lessen predatory pressure on FHM. Removal size of bass will depend on current status of bass sizes. Initially you may have to remove 20 LMB per acre to allow the YP numbers to increase. In later years you may only need to remove 10-12 lmb/ac depending on bass recruitment and productivity of the 3 ac pond. In clear water low productive ponds you may only need to remove 6-10 lmb/ac. It all depends on abundance & sizes of bass.

You will have to pay attention to size of bass hatches and the annual survival of juvenile bass. Adult YP also eat lots of FHM. Fewer larger bass and more numbers of mature YP (likely smaller sizes ) will result in larger average sized bass, providing you annually remove enough bass. You have the ability to nudge or skew the fishery as much as you want. Keep in mind that extra removal of bass will likely result in the average size of YP will be smaller due to less predation on the YP. It is hard to have it both ways, but you can work to skew or nudge the fishery only a little or a lot toward larger bass. It is a delicate balance that you have control of. More adult YP will also increase the seasonal predation on bass fry helping to reduce the number of small bass. This will occur mostly until the bass hatch is about 1.5-2" long.

The amount of weed cover will also play a role in the fishery balance. Too many or too few weeds affect how well predators can locate prey. Thus it is important to also manage the submerged weed community to a density of about 10% to no more than 30% coverage. Type of weed cover can also have a affect as to how well the predators can hunt the weed beds.

To do this correctly you have to get serious about the management and start keeping records of sizes of fish caught (both YP and LMB) and numbers that you are removing so you can monitor the fishery status, analyze the patterns that are showing up, and then make adjustments as you see changes in the size of fish you are catching over the years. Harvest of YP can still continue although you will also have to pay attention to their numbers and sizes.

The slot size of bass to remove will depend on the current status of the LMB population. What sizes of LMB do you currently have now? What are the largest ones that you want those to become larger?

Personally I prefer a pond with larger average size of YP which usually means overcrowded smaller sized predators. Another possibility that I did not discuss is adding a new predator to consume both bass and YP. A few additional predators. preferably non-reproducing (walleye or maybe pike) would add diversity for anglers, grow large, and consume bass & YP.

I think I will go ahead and add the FHM it really wont be much work for me and they are free. I will continue to monitor the size of the bass this spring and summer. Bass grow pretty slow up here it takes 5-8 years to grow 3lbs bass according to our Fish and wildlife services. My Bass are currently going on the third year and I will check weights and lengths. YP are relatively close to the same size. Thanks for the information!

Can you give us an estimate of what the current average size and largest LMB are in the pond?. At 3 yrs old your fishery is still young. LMB in the north can easily live up to 20 years if not harvested before then. Although trying to catch a wise old bass can be difficult especially if it has been caught several times previously.

Keep in mind that large bass occupy and take up a significiant portion of allowable bass biomass per acre. Provide us a more descriptive goal of what you want to achieve as far as a large bass fishery and we can probably provide additional information of how to achieve that goal and if it is feasable. What size of bass do you consider large and do you have any idea how many or what percent of the pond's bass biomass should be big ones? What I'm trying to do here is to see if your goals for big bass are realistic and achievable for Montana pond habitats.

It would also be very helpful if you could provide estimates (measurements) of the water clarity throughout the year. Is the water usually clear, brown stained, or murky turbid. How deep can you see a white object (3"-6" dia) when lowered into the water. Try to do that and report back.

Just a side note. I think LMB in managed ponds grow quicker than LMB in the wild because of the increased food source and decreased fishing pressure.

Bill, The average size of the bass last fall were 8 inches, they may be a few larger but the number would be under 10, they may be a couple of pounds. I am hoping to get 3-5 pounders out of the pound. 5lbs may be pushing the limit. Also note I am from eastern montana, I am not sure how familiar you are with the climate but we tend to get alot hotter in the summer and alot colder in the winter then the west side of the state. June july and august can produce 90-100 degree days will ease. But we do get cold and our bass growing season is probably on the verge of being too short. Water clarity varies. In the spring the runoff causes the water to be murky and muddy. Late summer the water is fairly clear. There are catails and saco pond weed in and around the pond, the pond harbors about 2 dozen waterfowl, turtles and lots of leopard frogs. I am just looking for a place to go in the evening and be able to catch a few decent sized bass. Similiar ponds in the area have produced 3-4lbs bass. Thanks for the help.

In your habitat I doubt the YP will produce more offspring compared to BG, thus the pond should have adequate small fish to feed the bass providing not too many LMB OR weeds are present. Lots of frogs indicates to me that the bass population is still in the young or early stages. Bass like to eat frogs and will keep their numbers thinned out esp if weeds are fewer. Your Bass are large enough to spawn this year. Did bass spawn last year? Do you see small 3"-4" bass now or last fall? Monitor number of small bass to keep them from being too abundant at the 6"-12" sizes and this will nudge the population toward larger bass.

How many bass did you initially stock / acre? These fish will be the ones to protect, not harvest and will be the initial group that grows to largest sizes during the 1st, 12-15 yrs. Keep in mind that as this 1st stock group ages numbers will be lost due to mortality from various causes. In 10-14 yrs only 2-4 of bass/ac will likely be alive. The succeeding spawns of later years are the ones to be monitoring and thinning of their numbers to prevent over crowding so the first stocking group has plenty of food as they grow past the 16" mark. These 16"+ bass will be foraging on primarily 5"-8" perch not FHM. So numerous larger YP should be present to keep the largest bass growing.

If you don't subscribe to Pond Boss mag, get the Jan-Feb 2010 back issue and read and study the two articles about bass management: "What To Do About Overcrowded Bass" and Fish Biology 103: How Can I Tell If My Bass Are Overpopulated". Subscribing to the magazine will keep your knowledge current about fish management. Dr Dave Willis from South Dakota State Univ has a fisheries article in the mag each issue. Your goal should be to have the correct number of bass from each generation survive. Knowing how many to remove and taking them out each year is the management part of the equation. There is where you play your part. Play it well and your pond can have some reasonable numbers of 3-5 lb bass. In your region and climate your bass should gain at least 0.5 lb per yr. So after 10 yrs a few bass (1-3/ac) should weigh 5 lbs. Maybe weigh 6 lbs if you do things correctly. Don't forget proper weed management - maintaining weeds at less than 25-35% coverage.