Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations BG Control - Stocking Single Sex LMB

Main pond overview:

3.5 acres
SMB
HSB
RES
YP
CSBG
GSH
PK Shrimp

Need to control excess BG in the 3-5" range in main pond. I am going to build BG traps and trap all year and place in cages for PB family who wants CSBG, but I don't feel I'll be adjusting the population enough. I cannot seine my pond as slopes are 2:1. So I'm considering stocking single sex LMB to help control BG populations.

I'm looking for recommendations on the following:

- QTY to stock in BOW of my size? I was considering 20.

- LMB sex? Females grow larger than males and have increased gape, and I fear they may develop a taste for my 12" YP and SMB. If I stick with Males they may be more prone to targeting smaller fish. Does this line of thinking make sense?

I would appreciate any feedback/direction you can provide. Assuming there are other SMB/BG fisheries on the forum that could benefit from this experiment.

Thanks in advance.

I thought that I always heard it was darn near impossible to sex LMB. Life will find a way. Isn't that what Jurassic Park taught us?

I'm just rambling because it's a really slow day here in the office.

Leave the CSBG in a bucket by the road and I'll come get them.

You can sex LMB when they are on the beds, which is coming up soon for me in SE NE. Males are easy to ID as they will milt when squeezed I assume?

This makes me cringe, but I'm sure you'll leave no doubt what sex of fish you're selecting before letting it loose in your waters.

I'd shoot for about 5 per acre so 20 would be right about it. I agree with the male vs female thought. No need to be growing 8 pound females. 3 pounds males will be more than enough. The biggest worry here is DON'T SCREW UP! Last year I caught and sexed over 50 BG which are far easier to sex than LMB. This spring I'll find out if I screwed up... However, I only stocked fish that were, what I thought 100% sure on their sex. Don't select the fish unless you're 200% sure... If it takes more than 1 spring to find all the LMB you're looking for, so be it. Better that than an oopsie and you now have an LMB pond.

Will be interesting to see if you end up with some meanmouth bass. A couple dozen male LMB making nests with no females to love on them... One would think a female SMB or two would get lost and slip a few eggs into their nests. However, biology does make this unlikely as SMB spawn in colder waters than that of LMB, so it would be less likely. However, male LMB are often ready and raring to go while the female LMB aren't quite there yet. So, it's possible and has happened in the wild before. The SMB x spotted bass hybrid is far more common as their spawning habitat and temps are much closer.

See these.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103605&fpart=1


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...amp;Search=true


More HSB ?

I think I'm pushing the limits on HSB have over 100 from 12 - 21" and they are pellet hogs. The only fish I see pursuing BG are YP and
SMB - but neither can fit the 4-5" BG I need to be hammered. My fishery is so out of balance it's scary - I am fully dependent on supplemental feeding. My GSH are established and I have many healthy adults that will spawn soon, PK Shrimp probably help feed the RES and BG, but other than YOY BG my pond's food chain is predator dominated. I want to get Spotfin Shiner and Bluntnose minnows going but need to first get some populations going in some forage ponds I want to build this Summer. As far as I know Bill Cody is the only one raising these as forage, and said he'd be willing to help me get established. I'd love to have a smaller shiner and a smarter faster minnow that could last in the pond to help build a more stable forage base. Getting closer....

TJ, I've been setting traps and talking to Cody and Travis since we've been back from the conference, looking for those species. No luck so far, but I have some options coming up. Have you found any locally? My creek is just jam packed with creek chub. ... which my catfishing buddies are pretty thrilled with.

TJ, I can get you both spotfin shiners and bluntnose minnows. We'll figure a way to get them to you via FedEx or UPS if needed. If you have a forage pond without any predators, just a couple dozen of each will be all you'll need to get a population started. Obviously being able to find a local source would be much cheaper and easier to work with...

I can also get you banded killifish, which aren't native to that part of the country but are excellent pond forage as well.

If your goal is simply to remove an over abundance of 4"-5" BG, my best recommendation is to utilize a fyke or hoop net. Here is a thread started by Chris Steelman showing how effective a fyke net can be... http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post169015

He was catching mostly GSF and HBG, but fyke nets will hammer BG just as well. You can sort through the catch, removing any species or sizes you don't want to remove. This method is probably the most underutilized method in pond management! Sadly, it works quite well as you can release the species sizes you don't want removed and keep those you do want removed. Plus, no need to add predator fish you don't really want like LMB. Adding those LMB will make the establishment of the spotfin shiners and bluntnose minnows, much more challenging...

Sources of fyke nets, shop around and see who has the best price with shipping and who can build you the best net for what your goals are...

Christiansen Nets
Memphis Net and Twine
Nichols Net and Twine

They aren't cheap, but if taken care of will last for years and will do management practices for you that you only dreamed of... Plus, you can simply set them out and do fish surveys annually to keep track of how each species is doing in all your ponds... No electroshock boat needed and no hooking fish and making them smarter. Plus, you can set it in your SMB brood pond to remove fish, catch CSBG for an interested party, etc... WELL WORTH THE INVESTMENT!

Travis

Good call and thank you for your willingness to help establish my forage ponds. I'm down with all species you named.

I'm reluctant to mess with fyke nets because I am not living out there and don't know how often I am willing to drag and empty the nets. I don't want to lose any desirable fish because of my inablity to visit my acreage on a regular schedule if you get my meaning. At least with fish traps I'm limiting the species and size of fish.

I agree addition of LMB to my fishery is NOT an ideal solution, but it's the least intensive. Still open to suggestions...I need to consider this carefully.

A lot of limitations...

Even if you utilized the fyke nets just a few weekends a year or any other time you have free, it would be like having far more LMB in your pond than what you are considering stocking...

Remember, LMB like to eat the easiest meals possible. Those easy meals in your pond are going to be your GSH and your YP not what you want them to be eating which are the BG. Not to say they will not eat some of the BG, they will. However, they're going to be eating a lot of the species you don't want eaten as they do that! They'll also make any of those minnows/shiners you stock high on their list of food too.

I'd find a way to utilize the fyke nets... They are not that heavy and cumbersome, particularly if you get ones made with fiberglass hoops instead of metal. I wish I lived by you or I'd gladly help out with the ponds.

TJ:

I'll bet you could remove a considerabele number of BG per year by running an 8' or 10' deep seine out from the bank, then parallel to the bank, then crowd the fish to the shore. If you can get a small boat on the pond with an electric trolling motor you could do it. A 75' or 100' long seine would grab a LOT of fish. You could sort right at the pond, tossing back the desirable fish. You wouldn't get wet up past your knees. Cecil and I seined his ponds with calf high boots on and didn't get wet. Just remember to keep the bottom of the seine slightly ahead of the top.

You aren't THAT far away from your ponds, a Fyke net would work too. Priorities man! Priorities!

The idea of netting and trapping is so desirable because only the fish you want are removed... Not what the LMB find easiest to eat.

Question TJ,
Do you think that other than the blue gills your mix is sustainable? I was thinking about something like that for a pond to be named later.

Sorry, just got this, been busy Morel hunting this week!

I'm very predator heavy - but YES I do believe its sustainable using the following TJ logic:

First off, I'm commited to a consistent supplemental feeding program with AM 500/600 and LMB.

RES will feed on invertabrates and my shrimp - no worries about them.

YP will pellet train or stunt, or die. That's fine with me - I'll keep restocking every four years or so. My goal for YP is for low density trophies. I consider a 13" YP a trophy for SE Nebraska. NE Lake Management just north of me sells great YP genetics cheap. Drop in bucket to supplementally stock 100 every other year.

HSB are almost exclusively on pellets. I have yet to see they hammer a tadpole, BG, anything but pellets. I don't believe they impact my forage base much.

Half my SMB are pellet trained, and again I see them routinely pass up easy meals of 2" BG to chase pellets. Those that aren't pellet trained are about half the size of my pellet fish. I'm okay catching, caging and selling them to a series of HOA lakes down the road who don't pellet feed anyhow. I will routinely stock the top 1% pellet trained SMB from repro pond back into the main pond to keep a healthy population.

My HC are on their own - I never meant for them to make it to my main pond anyhow. I've seen a few in the shallows this Spring - they have low WRs as I won't have available forage for them until the GSH spawn.

My forage base is currently comprised of BG, GSH, Crayfish and PK Shrimp. If I had to do over again I would have stocked Male only BG and kept the rest of the mix but would have established other minnow and shiner species prior to stocking. My ultimate goal is to establish a self sustaining forage base for the main pond comprised of the following:

PK Shrimp [achieved and then some!]
GSH [achieved]
Crayfish [achieved]
Spotfin Shiner [Bill/Travis say they can establish/reproduce in ponds and top end is smaller than the GSH providing YP and SMB with more forage opportunities]
Banded Kilifish [Travis says they're a worthy pond forage minnow - they look cool and I know they are native to NE already - want to give them a try]
Bluntnose Minnow [Bill says they have high fecundity of a FH minnow but with better escape instincts enabling them to establish population]

My plan is to dig a few forage ponds this Summer and use the design discussed on the forum of a sloping bathtub with a drain to hopefully minimize or eliminate need to seine. I need to learn more about the spawning habitat for the shiners and minnows, but should be a fun project and I'm excited at the prospect of diversifying my forage base in the pond.