Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking New propety with 15 acre pond

I am in the process of buying some property with a 15-acre pond on that has been there for approximately +30 years. I have had the water and vegetation tested and her are the results:

Water
Visibility 3.0ft
pH: 6.25 (range of 6.0 – 6.5)
Hardness 20ppm
Alkalinity: 30ppm
Avg Depth: 4.0ft. with a Max depth of 7.5ft

Vegetation
Coottail, Eurasion Milfoil, Bladderwort & variable leaf/Pondweed

The Pond is spring fed, so I plan to just do the best with the water situation as it would seem to be an uphill battle and the Coontail & Eurasion was recommend to be treated in April using Sonar (expensive stuff!). There are tons of Channels in the pond with 7-9 ponders cruising the dock and the owner says that he catches bass, sunfish and crappie but I suspect they are relatively small as the catfish probably need to be harvested.

My goal is to rebalance the pond for bass, but I know that it will not produce trophy bass and perhaps at best 4-5 ponders – I think.

That said I am looking for some advice on whether my goal is unrealistic and am I pretty much relegated to a catfish fry every weekend? No offense to catfishers, but I sure would like some variety. Any help, advise or observation would be much appreciated. Thanks.

csullivan, I'm an amateur ponder.

15 acres is a great sized pond. I'd call it a lake if it were mine. Anyway, I think you could grow largemouth bass in excess of 8-10 lbs. if you started a management regime specific to a goal of lunkers.

I have a 6-7 acre pond in PA, and I have numerous 4-5 lb. largemouth, and I'm not really managing the pond for lunker largemouth. We have less of a growing season up here also. So I believe you in Texas could make it happen.

I'd also fish the place very heavily prior to making any immediate changes. I'd fish for all types of species to try to get my own picture of what's in the pond. The previous owners of my pond told me what was in the pond, and their info. turned out to be accurate, just not accurate enough to make decisive pond management moves. Only until I fished it myself did I get the full picture (and of course finding this website).

Good luck in closing the deal.

csullivan.

You can do just about whatever you want with that size body of water...including go for the state record bass. I completely agree with Sunil that your first step (after closing) is to systematically and thoroughly determine the status of the fishery. Careful observation, fishing, record keeping will tell you what you need to know.

Please join in on the fun here and you will get more help than you can imagine.

Sullivan, I see you are from Plano. Where is the property located?

csullivan

Welcome to the PB forum – you will find many helpful and friendly pondmeisters on this site- some professional – some amateurs – with much experience and knowledge.

Being in the amateur class with small ponds, I can’t advise management of a 15-acre lake. It sounds from you post that you have done your homework and/or sought professional help.

The only suggestion that I would make is to investigate some of the new ideas and concepts that have come from board members on developing a diversified fishery.

I personally, as well as others, have had experience and success with hybrid stripers, in addition to the traditional LMB, CC, BG combination.

Feel free to ask questions, and also you will find the archives a very valuable resource.

George Glazener
N.E. Texas ¼ acre and 2 acre ponds

csullivan :

Welcome to the fourm . As noted in the posts above you will find lots of info, ideas and help on this site . I don't know what resource material you have but you may want to consider 2 books by Pondboss editor Bob Lusk on managing ponds and trophy bass they are on the web site. Also the Texas Coop. Ext. Service has an on line pond management publication which is helpful.

You can reach the goals in your post with some effort. Many on this fourm have done the same and can help.

Great advice in the above posts .The key is understanding the basic factors to pond mgt. and using them to get to your goal. I agree your next step is to be sure what is in your pond. Good luck . ewest

csullivan,

With such a big pond, you should seriously consider the advantages of having a it electroshocked. Fishing it will give you a general sense of the ponds contents, but it won't be the whole picture. The professional doing the shocking will be informative with all sorts of other tips and strategies. You'll probably end up saving time and money going this route. You're investing a substantial amount of money buying the property to begin with, so if you really want a top-notch fishing pond on this property, you'd be well advised to spend a little extra on researching it professionally.

Check an issue of Pond Boss Magazine for advertisers that can help you in your quest, or ask for referrals on this forum.

Good luck and enjoy the fishing for years to come!

Wow!

I really appreciate the quick feedback and sound advice of the collective group. As advised, I have already subscribed to Pond Boss and purchased and read the Basic Pond Management, Earth Ponds A-Z and Water and Algae books. I also had the damn inspected. My intention was to have the “lake”, as I shall now refer to it, shocked surveyed but the ground was too soft and the guy was afraid he would get stuck, that is why I only have a vegetation and water information. I will definitely have it shocked, but will probably wait until the fall and in the meantime simply start fishing and seeing for myself what is out there and take corrective action when the shock survey is complete.

In the end, I feel pretty good about the purchase of this property (in Oakwood, TX) and my only remaining concern was the relative shallowness of the lake, but since no one has really mentioned it I will assume that it is not a material issue.

Again, thanks for the advice and encouragement and being new to this it is nice to know that a resource like this exists. I will keep everyone posted as to the progress of the lake and if you in the area and want to drop a line let me know!

csulli, I forgot to mention on thing in my post.

This comment needs to be checked by TX pond owners - If you wanted a little more depth, you can have some good sized areas of deeper holes made with a mid to large sized back hoe. With a day of backhoe work, I would think you could make 20+ deep holes in the 15' diameter range.

There may be a risk of breaching your ponds(I mean lake) water holding capability or hitting some kind of porus rock. That's why I say that my comment needs to be checked.

I'm going to disagree with Sunil slightly on this...and that's a first!

It can be risky business, for virtually no gain, to dig areas of 20 feet depth.

First, unless you know what the composition of the bottom is down to that depth, you are taking a significant risk of compromising your lake's integrity, i.e. ability to hold water. You could hit sand, springs, rock or whatever...its risky. Also, that process will muddy your water significantly, possibly leading to a major fish kill if done in the summer heat. Most important, however, is that you don't need 20 feet depth in Texas, and in fact don't want it for raising bass...do some research on thermoclines.

The only problem I see is that if you have significant areas in less than 3 feet of water, you will have problems with weeds...those can be addressed with grass carp and other controls.

I would not at all consider digging out to 20 feet.

Meadowlark, thanks for weighing in on that one. I wanted/needed someone from TX to correct it if it was wrong.

PS: ML, I had already posted my comment on the ACoE thread before I read your post above. Just poking fun.

csullivan :

I did not address lake renovation at this point as that decision is better made after your pond survey . Methods of renovation of a lake while trying to keep your existing fish population is completely different than the methods used if you decide to kill the population first and start over. If after the survey the population is so bad that you want to start over then you drain the lake kill the remaining pockets , move in the dozer , tract hoe etc. If you want to keep the existing population you can lower the water level and work around the edges with equipment and do more with the use of cover { trees, brush , rocks etc.}. In the second situation what you can do to the deep part of the lake are limited absent the use of a dragline or dredge or a coffer dam. There is info on the site about both and some members have done both. There is also info { tapes , books, web sites , etc.} on renovation . In the meantime you can look into how much siltation has occured over 30 years which will be good info to have if you renovate.

To help in getting ready for your electroshock survey in addition to fishing you may want to do a seine survey which is described on the fourm and else where on line. It is easy to do and adds to your base of info. Keep notes on what you do and see based on careful observation. Good luck. ewest

Once again it takes a Texan to keep the Yankees straight

csullivan,
If you have not already contacted Todd Overton of Overton Fisheries, I would highly recommend him.
He only a stone's throw from you between Buffalo and Centerville.
He's a good guy..
George Glazener

csullivan,

Here's a request of you...

I hope you will spend some time doing your own "survey" of the lake before you call in for an electro-survey. Fish it, observe it carefully, seine if you think that is necessary....learn it and listen to what the lake tells you.

I'm a minority here (maybe a minority of one), but I do not believe that electro-surveys tell you anything which you can not determine for yourself....at much less expense and much less trauma to your lake. However, if you are not interested in or have the time to do your own survey, i.e. fish, observe, observe, fish, then by all means call in the experts.

In my electro-survey, I learned that they only shock up 10 to 20% of the bass...any more than that and you run the risk of killing fish. They do not get deep water fish, although in your lake that may not be a concern.

For example, I caught a 5 pound bass this weekend that was not in the spring survey. You can determine the health of the bass very readily by running relative weights...same for BG.

Again, mine is a minority opinion and is based strictly on my own personal experience. I will never electro-survey again, but it does have its place in certain cases.

csullivan :

I agree in part with Meadowlark's post above . But it all depends on your pond. Most 30 year old ponds have siltiation in deeper areas. If all you are doing is removing silt the chance of causing a leak or breach are small if done by someone who is experienced in lake work. It would be good to know your lakes original depth.

Next I would point out that for areas as far south as central Miss. & Ala. and north La. it gets cold enough for deeper water to be helpful. If you look into thermoclines you will find they are a warm water event in most of the south. When cold weather comes , at least as far south as noted above, the cold oxygen rich surface water sinks and the thermocline is reversed. This is called turnover. After winter turnover the deeper water in your lake is both warmer and more stable than the surface water and it has enough oxygen for fish. Why does this matter? If your goal is to raise lunker Florida strain bass or F-1s which are less cold tolerant then it is good to have some deeper stable warmer water for them to escape to when the surface water gets cold in winter. That is why we have deeper water with cover from bottom to 2 feet. We find in winter the bass are in deep water around the cover often as deep as 14 feet. We have verified this by temp. readings , sonar, underwater camera and fishing.

I do not know if this applies to Dallas but I know it gets the same type of weather as cent. Miss., Ala. and north La. in winter. I don't know if Houston , New Orleans and Mobile get the same winter turnover. There are lots of folks from your area on the fourm who can verify if your area experiences winter turnover.I hope this helps.ewest

I don't know much about electro shocking but question whether it can be done effectively in a mess of weeds.

meadowlark, I agree with you somewhat BUT....
Yes electrofishing if you have made good observations will only varify what you already knew. I think that is why you were disapointed b/c you did not get a written management report (or maybe you finally did). This piece of paper is what my clients are paying for. With some homework on this site and other genral info you can do a great job with your pond. However the opinion of a good biologist that can see more lakes in a month than most in a lifetime can provide a valubale resource. I get your point though. I doubt I will get many leads here and stay very busy but felt I should defend the most unbiased scientific method for pond evaluation. sorry mis spelled words, in a hurry

Greg,

I hope you know that I have utmost respect for you and what you do. By no means would I ever cast any dispersions on that service....and I think you believe me when I say that. You gave me "free" consulting service with no hope of financial gain...that says all I ever need to know about you.

Having said that, I'm a firm believer in "hands on" pond management. Its fun stuff for me and I like to encourage others to do the same....and get the same enjoyment.

Not everyone has that level of interest or time. Mistakes, yes I've made them and will make more...but mistakes are all part of the learning process to me, part of the journey. My mistakes don't hurt anyone but me. However, sometimes even a blind hog finds that proverbial acorn, also.

Just wanted to clarify where I was coming from and encourage folks to jump into this pond game with both feet...its the journey, not the destination that counts. Thanks.

Todd Overton did do the water and vegetation work and was to do the survey as well had the ground not been so soft. However, I am pretty comfortable with the information from Todd and the seller, so I will take my time do some fishing and see what I observe before I pull the trigger on a shock survey. I will let you guys know what develops and thanks again for the advice and I am sure I will be back for more.

One thing I've noticed in my observations of my pond is that you have to give it almost 10 minutes in one spot while watching. Otherwise, you will miss activity.

If you go ahead and place some structure/brush piles (unless you already know where some are), that will be a good place to anchor the boat and observe.

With 15 acres, you've got to narrow it down somehow!

ML, agree just wanted a counter point. THe thing is folks here are DIY type. I respect that and agree is a great if not best method. However many folks want to just show up at their pond and have great fishing. This is the type that most benefit from a properly conducted shock survey followed by well written mgmt plan. IT clearly outlines steps to take to achieve their pond goals. No offense taken.

I am with Meadowlark, you can learn a lot from just fishing and keeping a log of everything caught. Unless it has had some some one other than "locals" fishing or taking care of the place, you are bass heavy, forage light. My place is 8 miles from you in Flo. 12 acres and I take every bass out under 14 inch. I stock copper nose and now tilapia. Still bass heavy but catch a good range of size. biggest is 8.6 pounds. Last weekend 1 and 1/2 days fishing caught 53 bass. There are some great lakes in Oakwood, know of one guy who caught 15 pounder out of a lake there. Good luck you will have a great time, just be carefull it is easy to start spending lots of cash before you know it.
Bob

I agree with ML. I would fish, fish, and fish. I keep records with date, length and weight. This will give you a good idea of where you stand. Then you will know which directions to start asking questions based on your goals. If you are going for bass I would remove as many of the catfish as possible.