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 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Omaha, trespassing is a real problem in this country cause of the corrupted legal system, even with precautions and if your in the right, they can still drag you into court and cost you big bucks.


Here is a very recent story from my hometown. If any of the names seem familiar they are all former relatives, in-laws, or neighbors.

Man Arrested for Trespassing on His Own Land

This still isn't settled. I'm just glad I'm not the judge.

EDIT: I probably shouldn't have even posted this, but it does show another side of the trespassing issue. Please don't turn this into a political debate. This story has many sides, none of which are clear or precise. I think it will have to go outside the county to get settled.

Last edited by catmandoo; 12/11/09 08:28 PM. Reason: Clarification and Disclaimer

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catmandoo #195595 12/16/09 10:57 AM
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Trespassing is a huge problem whether it be hunting or fishing.

I naively thought that it wouldn't happen at my pit until the other day. I have had somebody ride ATV's around our place in the past despite locked gates and well maintained fences. Anyway, the other day, after a couple of weeks of freezing temps, I went out to make the season's first attempt at ice fishing the pit. Imagine my surprise when I saw on the ice between 10 and 15 re-frozen spots where someone had drilled holes! This despite the fact that the pit is only about 100 yards from, and within sight of, my house. I haven't given anyone permission to fish this year. I thought that maybe my Father had come over to fish, so I called him, and he said "No." As far as I can tell, the trespassers must have come onto the property when my wife and I were at work. So, now, I have to find a way to catch the trespassers if they return.

I have thought about trail cameras, but it is very open around the pit, and I'm afraid anyone who trespasses would steal the cameras. I have talked to the local conservation officer, and made him aware that there is a problem. I have also made business/permission cards signed by me that I give only to those who have permission to use the property. The conservation officer has one also, so he is aware of the documentation that people who use the pit should have.

I think that the only real solution to stopping the problem is to catch and prosecute the violators.

Nebucks #195596 12/16/09 11:02 AM
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Post a sign near the pond that says No Fishing - Video monitored.
















ewest #195598 12/16/09 11:11 AM
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Hello Nebucks and welcome to Pond Boss. Trespassing seems like an issue no matter where your property is. I even had folks cut a barbed wire fence so they could ride horses on my property. Repaired the fence and posted signs "No Trespassing, No Hunting, No Fishing." I drove some T Posts in around the edge of the pond such that you cannot access my pond without walking past a sign. Is there any road or trial that you can place the cameras to get photos?


JHAP
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Nebucks #195599 12/16/09 11:16 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Nebucks
I have also made business/permission cards signed by me that I give only to those who have permission to use the property.


This idea I like.

Omaha #195601 12/16/09 11:31 AM
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At first blush I did too. However I would be somewhat worried that the people coming onto the property would become "invited guests" which, at least in California, increases the level of liability to the property owner.


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I've created a form that I make anyone sign who's going to hunt on my property.

It specs out the date of when they are going to hunt and it's says that I have no liability in the matter. It also lists the phone numbers of myself, the PA State Police, and the PA Game Commission officer.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I can't be sued, but it will help a little bit if things ever get legal.

One reason I also did this was to enable my permitted hunter to tell anyone else they see to 'slag off.' I tell people that I don't expect them to confront anyone, but that if they do, show them the permission slip and ask if they've got one (which they wouldn't).


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Thanks folks! I've been a long time lurker here, and I can't believe the amount of quality info that comes from this site. It is a great place!

I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.

I asked about whether or not the card would open me up to legal issues and was told that it does not. It just confirms that the bearer has my permission to access the property for the period denoted on the card.

Nebucks #195613 12/16/09 12:08 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Nebucks
Thanks folks! I've been a long time lurker here, and I can't believe the amount of quality info that comes from this site. It is a great place!

I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.

I asked about whether or not the card would open me up to legal issues and was told that it does not. It just confirms that the bearer has my permission to access the property for the period denoted on the card.


Good to know. Where in NE are you Bucks?

Nebucks #195614 12/16/09 12:11 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Nebucks
I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.


Now THAT is a sensible law.


JHAP
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Omaha #195617 12/16/09 12:44 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Omaha
Good to know. Where in NE are you Bucks?


I am in the Kearney/Grand Island area.

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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Now THAT is a sensible law.


Yep, the law was passed a few years ago in response to the increase in leasing that is going on in our state and the reduction in numbers of people who utilize outdoor resources. Since lack of access was indicated as the number one reason why hunting and fishing recruitment was/is declining, it is an attempt by the legislature to keep private lands accessible to folks who can't afford to lease. The idea is to make it easier for land owners to say yes to folks who ask to use property for outdoor pursuits without the fear of frivolous lawsuits. It saves on them having to purchase liability insurance also. The flip side is that those who do receive compensation for access, need to have all of their ducks in a row as far as insurance goes and making sure that their property is "safe" for use.

The amazing thing is that their are a lot of land owners in the state who are not aware of this legislation. A lot of land owners mistakenly believe that leasing is the only way to protect themselves from lawsuits from poachers and trespassers who might get injured while on their property illegally. In reality, by leasing, they actually open themselves up to more potential law suits.

Nebucks #195622 12/16/09 01:38 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Nebucks
 Originally Posted By: Omaha
Good to know. Where in NE are you Bucks?


I am in the Kearney/Grand Island area.


Ah, good to have another 'Husker' on board. We have 2 Lincolnites and I am building a pond near Springfield. Welcome to the best resource for pond management on the web.

Omaha #195624 12/16/09 02:07 PM
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Welcome to PB Nebucks. I would suggest that you contact your insurance agent and verify that you have coverage including cost of defense in the case one of the card holders is injured and makes a claim.
















ewest #195626 12/16/09 03:04 PM
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ewest, I appreciate the advice. I have checked and my insurance company says that the pond is covered for liability issues under my home owner's insurance since it lies within a certain distance of our house.

I thought I would copy and paste the Nebraska legislation for those from other states so that you can see what I am talking about with this law. The law has been tested in court and has been upheld. That isn't saying that some knuckle head couldn't take a land owner to court; however the chance of that person winning is almost nil. (I would say never, but it is only never until the first time.)

***Sorry for the length***
Here is the Nebraska statute:

"Nebraska Recreation Liability Act (Sections 37-729 to 37-736)

37-729. Terms, defined. For purposes of sections 37-729 to 37-736:
(1) Land includes roads, water, watercourses, private ways, and buildings, structures, and machinery or equipment thereon when attached to the realty;
(2) Owner includes tenant, lessee, occupant, or person in control of the premises;
(3) Recreational purposes includes, but is not limited to, any one or any combination of the following: Hunting, fishing, swimming, boating, camping, picnicking, hiking, pleasure driving, nature study, waterskiing, winter sports, and visiting, viewing, or enjoying historical, archaeological, scenic, or scientific sites, or otherwise using land for purposes of the user; and
(4) Charge means the amount of money asked in return for an invitation to enter or go upon the land.

37-730. Limitation of liability; purpose of sections. The purpose of sections 37-729 to 37-736 is to encourage owners of land to make available to the public land and water areas for recreational purposes by limiting their liability toward persons entering thereon and toward persons who may be injured or otherwise damaged by the acts of omissions of persons entering thereon.

37-732. Landowner; invitee; permittee; liability; limitation. Subject to section 37-734, an owner of land who either directly or indirectly invites or permits without charge any person to use such property for recreational purposes does not thereby (1) extend any assurance that the premises are safe for any purpose,(2) confer upon such persons the legal status of an invitee or licensee to whom a duty of care is owed, or (3) assume responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or property caused by an act or omission of such persons.

37-733. Land leased to state; duty of landowner. Unless otherwise agreed in writing, an owner of land leased to the state for recreational purposes owes no duty of care to keep that land safe for entry or use by others or to give warning to
persons entering or going upon such land of any hazardous conditions, uses, structures, or activities thereon. An owner who leases land to the state for recreational purposes shall not be giving such lease (1) extend any assurance to any person using the land that the premises are safe for any purpose, (2) confer upon such persons the legal status of an invitee or licensee to whom a duty of care is owed, or (3) assume responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or property caused by an act or omission of a person who enters upon the leased land. The provisions of this section shall apply whether the person entering upon the leased land is an invitee, licensee, trespasser, or otherwise.

37-734. Landowner; liability; exceptions. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 limits in any way any liability which otherwise exists (1) for willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against a dangerous condition, use structure, or activity or (2) for injury suffered in any case where the owner of land charges the person or persons who enter or go on the land. Rental paid by a group, organization, corporation, or the state or federal
government shall not be deemed a charge made by the owner of the land. 420

37-735. Sections, how construed. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 creates a duty of care or ground of liability for injury to person or property.

37-736. Obligation of person entering upon and using land. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 limits in any way the obligation of a person entering upon or using the land of another for recreational purposes to exercise due care in his or her use of such land in his or her activities thereon."

Nebucks #195660 12/16/09 08:00 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Nebucks
Thanks folks! I've been a long time lurker here, and I can't believe the amount of quality info that comes from this site. It is a great place!

I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.

I asked about whether or not the card would open me up to legal issues and was told that it does not. It just confirms that the bearer has my permission to access the property for the period denoted on the card.


Sounds very similiar to the law in here in IL. It is amazing how many people don't know about this and the answer you will get when you telling them about it.


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Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Originally Posted By: Nebucks
I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.


Now THAT is a sensible law.


Laws similar to this exist in many states. Wisconsin law limits the recovery options of an invited non-paying recreational user of land to those of a trespasser.


Ponds in TX, lake place in WI, me in CA
txelen #233548 09/05/10 03:12 PM
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In Michigan, unless the guest is paying for access, the property owner is not liable for invited or un-invited persons. Then with the paying guests, they have "No Cause" against the owner, lessee or tenant unless they can prove some sort of negligence or misconduct.

This is what Michigan has to say: Act 451

This Act is really in favor of the property owner, lessee, or tenant. I like how they tied it into the "Michigan Right to Farm Act". Good job MI.

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JKB #233562 09/05/10 07:41 PM
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The bad thing with "no Liability" laws is that you still have to pay to defend them, win or lose, unless you can get your insurance co. to cover the expense. There are always exceptions, but not many.



Rainman #233617 09/06/10 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
The bad thing with "no Liability" laws is that you still have to pay to defend them, win or lose, unless you can get your insurance co. to cover the expense. There are always exceptions, but not many.


Unless I am misunderstanding this "a cause of action shall not arise", pretty much says a trespasser... can not even bring a claim against a property owner... for injuries... I also understand the exceptions...

The other thing I like is a property owner... can bring a claim against a trespasser, and has 1 year to do so.

I prefer to live in peace with our neighbors on the west side of the property, so I am thinking a good fence is in order to define boundaries (even though they are well defined now). I need to go about 1900 feet to block out two neighbors. The other neighbor is good people!



Last edited by JKB; 09/06/10 04:00 PM.
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Sadly, we have our first case of trespassers that I'm aware of at our pond. We just moved in December. Now the weather is warming up enough to where I guess casual fisherman have taken an interest in the pond.

There's a golf course behind our pond and my wife said she caught two people who looked like they were in the late teens fishing in the pond and taking two of the bass we just stocked in the pond this past weekend. I am so upset about that. These are nice quality 2 pound fish and I intentionally left those fish alone since stocking them so they could get adjusted. She says she saw them run off with two fish in their hands when she came outside. Then to top it off, later in the day they came back and they ran again when she came outside.

At least have the stones to come up to the house and ask if you can fish. That really upsets me. They've broken through a barbwire fence I have up along the golf course to get to our pond.

Wife called the sheriff to file a report. I'm going to put up posted signs and repair the fence today.

I guess it begins now.

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mad mad mad



Rainman #252384 03/22/11 04:31 PM
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Oh man that kind of stuff pisses me off!! That's what I am afraid of at my land as I am not even there where I can watch my pond! Once I have my cabin built I am thinking about putting up video so I can at least watch whats going on there and report it if I have it on video! Good luck with your situation. Hope you get it fixed before something ugly happens!


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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I have a horrible time with fishing trespassers. I am not spending much on the fish until I get things straightened out on that front. I replaced the one faded falling down sign and added 3 more cheap HF no trespassing signs while out seting the beaver traps. All gone a few weeks later when I went out to check them and mow. The 4 replacements were gone the next week when I took my kid and mom out there to have some fun mad. Now I have my purple paint(to make it 100% posted in official eyes) and a cheap HF laminator. They can steal all the laminated sheets of paper they want.

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See if you can make a pile of dirt big enough to act as a backstop in someone's eyes, and place a target with some holes in front of it. Then place a sigh saying "caution shooting range" and see what happens then.

After going thru some of the same things, I really feel for absentee landowners, especially the ones that are a long ways away.


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