Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Pond possible in silt loam w/ 10in to bedrock?

I know it sounds crazy, but we're desperate... My husband and I have finally found the perfect piece of land to build our homestead, but we just got the soil maps and we're doubting if we can even build the pond we had hoped for. The site we want to use is a large flat area at the bottom of a wooded mountainside that has a lot of standing and it looks like there's plenty of water draining from the mountainside to support a pond. But the soil map description says, "Soil classification is Tuller channery silt loam, shallow (10 to 20 inches to bedrock), somewhat poorly to poorly drained and medium textured. It occupies level to gently sloping areas of glacial till in the uplands. Permeability is moderate to moderately slow in the surface and subsoil. Available water capacity is low." Does this mean it will be impossible for us to dig a pond here because the bedrock is so shallow and there's no clay? I assume the rock is shale because we live in the Marcellus shale region of NY state outside of Ithaca. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

lena welcome to the forum, hang on for expert advice, it's a weekend so it might take awhile, or maybe not.

Lena, welcome to Pond Boss. You're not getting the expert that AP alluded to above but...

It doesn't sound very promising. Neither shale or silt will hold water. Contact the local NRCS office and ask about their knowledge of ponds in this type of soil formations.

Ditto here!

One forum member (IIRC) blasted a pond into rock, but I'll bet it wasn't cheap. I second getting in touch with NRCS.

One of the biggest problems prospective pond owners run into is to let their emotions rule over the cold hard facts. Other than digging ponds where they shouldn't, we see people buying property on a pond shared by others and regretting it even though we told them there could be problems.


You could always do a test hole dig to see what gives and even fill it with water and see what happens. Is it possible the shale is soft enough to dig into and then put in a liner or pack in a few feet of clay if you can afford it?

Lena
Glad to have you on the forum!!!!!
Before you spend a lot of money take a look around your area see if there are any other ponds close by. If there are visit with the owner find out what kind of luck they had. The report you have does not sound good but do not give up yet.
The soil maps are surprisingly accurate, but not always. The information came from on the ground back breaking work. As I understand it mostly with a shovel.
There have been good lakes built in places that on the surface did not look good at all.
Also there is rock and then there is hard dirt. Some shale makes a very good lake bottom that holds water well. The material can be hard to process in a dam, but not impossible to work with.
If possible get someone to dig some holes where you want to have the pond and see for sure what you have.
When you said you and your husband have finally found the perfect piece of land that tells me you do not want to give it up without a good fight. It may not be able to have a pond but, that decision needs to be made with a little more information,---
Keep us posted

Lena,

I am not a pond expert, but I am a geologist. Moving water tries to sort particles. A glacier does just the opposite and mixes everything up together. Glacial till can be an aggregate of house-sized boulders down to very fine-grained rock flour, along with every size in between. This is very poor material to build an earthen dam.

However, without seeing your site, you may have two good things that most of us lack. 1.) Big elevation changes, and 2.) Abundant rocks of varying size.

You did not say what size of pond you desired. If it was not too big, you may be able to switch gears and get really creative with a different design that matches your available terrain. For small ponds (.1 to .5 acres) you can utilize a pond liner if you have a pretty good budget. I have seen some beautiful water features with cascading ponds coming down hillsides. They used lots of rocks to enhance the water features (Imagine a geologist finding that appealing!)

If you have good water turnover through your ponds you can easily manage fish in very small waters. (The Pond Boss fish experts can help you there.)

I recommend having the soil at your site checked, then look at the topography and see what you can creatively build with what you have available.

Finally, to leave you on a upnote, it is possible to make ponds in glacial till. If you see nearly round ponds in your area (on topo maps or aerial shots) these are natural features formed by retreating glaciers. [I think they call them "kettle ponds" in your neck of the woods.] When the glaciers retreated they sometimes left behind huge isolated blocks of ice. They lasted many years and the fine-grained material carried in the meltwater of the nearby glacier would build-up around the block of ice. If the block lasted long enough the material would be consolidated sufficiently to form a "dam".

Good luck on your project.

This is quite a late thank you, but it is a very big thank you to everyone for taking so much time to consider and be helpful. we have been busy buying the place weather or not we can build a pond exactly where we wanted. Otto: we are definately not giving up without a fight. I don't think we can leagally go out there with a shovel and investigate until after the closing, but i'm sure we be can be creative with whatever we find. FishinRod, it is good to see this place more like the glacier that made it and i'm excited to see what kind of rocks it left behind. The topography is four cascading fields (all with shallow top soil) that roll south with about about a 20ft evelevation change between each one - which i guess is the reason why it seems so perfect. There is plenty of water draining off from the state forrest hillside that we could definately build some sort of creek-like drainage system with smaller pools. What soil is there grows good grass so we can still go ahead with all our other plans. I'm sure our Jersey cow, goat, chickens (and hopefully ducks) will appreciate drinking whatever kind of running creek we are able to sculpt. And I will definatly be comming back for expert advice on what kind of fish we might add to our little ecosystem.

Yes, it does sound like a perfect place to build your homestead.

Let us know how things go! Good luck (meaning best wishes) on the closing.