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#252627 - 03/24/11 09:01 PM how many diffusers do i need
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
Hey guys,
Since i basically overstocked my 2.25 acre pond i figured i would want to go on and put my aeration in. The pond is various depths with holes and shelfs everywhere, i get very creative digging it, but i probably need a lot of aeration to move the water out of the holes. my pond is basically a rectangle with a large finger seperating part of it. i was thinking of 3 diffuser stations consisting of of 3 9" discs each. the pond is approx. 15 feet deep with deeper points and little submerged islands everywhere also. What size pump would i need? this should stop any fish kill from overstocking right? i really appreciate all the help.

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#252644 - 03/25/11 12:48 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Monty M]
Chad Fikes Offline
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Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Whitesboro, TX
What is your deepest water and what is average depth. Those two items will be important when determining what type of system you need. The aeration system will need to be based on volume of water you have.
_________________________
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www.texomahatchery.com

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#252654 - 03/25/11 07:27 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Chad Fikes]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
deepest part is around 20 feet, but average is 15 feet on an acre, the other acre is around 8 feet or so average.

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#252661 - 03/25/11 08:54 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Monty M]
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN Offline
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Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 969
Loc: NA
Its not as much about how many diffusers as it is how many times per 24 hours do you want / need to turn your water,once twice etc?If your looking at a 3 disc per station setup then be sure to get the test data that gives the lift at various depths and various cfm's. Find out the operating range of the station and stay away from the top end of the range. If you exceed the range with some membranes you can actually start to produce larger bubbles that lower your lifting capacity.Placement of the stations will then also come into play.If your carrying capacity is high and you have other factors occur like a bloom crash or sudden plant dieoff then yes you can have a kill even with a properly sized aeration system.Proper aeration will take out the daily highs and lows of your oxygen swing but cant compete with a sudden "demand" that is access of supply.

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#252663 - 03/25/11 09:51 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12556
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
With a pond your size of 2.5 ac, I would consider using a 3/4 hp compressor producing 8-10 cfm or two compressors located one near each end (minimizes airline runs) with a combined cfm around 8-14 cfm. Examine cfm requirement of each diffuser and match total cfm needed to the compressor's capability. Depending on shape of the pond and location and size of deeper holes consider incorporating a couple extra diffusers that are 1 or 2 disc in the holes instead of all diffusers being 3 disc. Lots of options in a pond that has a large diversity of bottom morphology. Islands both submerged and exposed tend to block or baffle aeration currents. In complex situations heed good advice, and consider second opinions from those learned and experienced such as professionals here.


Edited by Bill Cody (03/25/11 09:59 AM)
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#252683 - 03/25/11 03:58 PM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Bill Cody]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Monty,

Sounds like you have a very cool pond! Well I am no "professional" in the realm of air that's for sure. Bill makes a good point. Get advice from every direction you can. There are a lot of guys on this site that know about air, and each pond is in some way different. For example I have a air system that works quite well for those ponds of basic shape and contour of 1 acre or less. With that said that doesn't mean you can take that system and just double it and put it in a 2 acre pond. Lots of variables there to examine. Like Mr. Cody said you may want to put a fuser or 2 in them deep spots to keep them turning a flow. That's a very cool idea by the way Bill. Bottom line is this. There are a LOT of things to look at and figure out when it comes to air. Like pump type, pump size, how many pumps? Type of air hose to use, how much CFM will my pump push out at what depth? What's the min and max my diffusers can handle CFM wise. I will use this for an example for you.

Take for example my setup. I have a pump that will produce a max CFM of 7. And a max air pressure of 5.1. Well if I remember right you will lose about 1psi for about every 2.5 feet or so of water downforce and my system is in 8 feet. So at 8 feet my system is producing about 2 to 2.2 psi. Which is fine it doesn't have to produce a whole lot to get the job done. Just remember you don't want to push your pump to the edge all the time either or it won't last long.
Ok so now I have my pump it's pushing out about 2 psi and remember I have a max CFM range of 7 also. This CFM range you will have to find out from a pump chart or from the person you buy your pump from, because the chart is going to let you know how many CFM's the pump will put out at what depth. So lets say your CFM end up being 5 at 15 feet. Well ok now you have to figure in what's the CFM range of my diffusers I am using.

For example: I have 3 diffusers that will work anywhere from .5 CFM to 5 CFM each. So if your pump is putting out 5 CFM that means I would have about 1.7 CFM going to each diffuser which is in range and your good. I hope this all doesn't make your brain fry! smile Don't over think it you just need to know a few things on the front end to make your setup work like you want it to and your good to go.
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The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#252732 - 03/26/11 08:27 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: RC51]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
I appreciate all the help, guess i have more reading to do

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#252742 - 03/26/11 11:28 AM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Monty M]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12556
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
As I understand air movement, pressure, and water depth, I think rewording some of what RC51 has mentioned above is necessary. No offense RC, just trying here to clear some 'muddy water'. Someone expert please correct me if I am wrong in my message.

RC51 says: ""I have a pump that will produce a max CFM of 7. And a max air pressure of 5.1. Well if I remember right you will lose about 1psi for about every 2.5 feet or so of water downforce and my system is in 8 feet. So at 8 feet my system is producing about 2 to 2.2 psi."" I think there is a 'little muddy water' here.

I will reword or re-explain this. As water depth increases it takes more air pressure to exhaust (push out) air at that new increased depth. As a simplistic generalized rule I use 0.5 psi per ft of water depth. Example: to blow air at 5 ft it requires about 2.5 psi, exhaust air at 10 ft then it requires 5 psi, etc. As one goes deeper you really don't 'lose' psi, you usually lose cfm (air volume). But it does require MORE psi to get air out at increasing depth. A specific psi has a depth limit to which it can 'blow air" and expell it. If you don't have enough psi (pressure) you don't or can't 'blow out' any air at a specific depth. Try blowing air out a tube with your mouth when it is 5 ft deep. Just tried it, can't do it, cause my lungs could not create enough pressure (psi) when the tube wass at that depth. 2ft yes, 3ft yes, 4ft difficult, 5 ft no way. You can try this at home.

Now, as you blow out a measured rate/amount or volume (cubic ft/minute - cfm) of air (not same as pressure), AND you increase the depth, the amount you can blow out becomes less unless you increase the pressure - psi. This becomes critical when the compressor has an upper normal working pressure - say 10 psi (most rotary vane pumps). Generally as one increases depth, the amount or volume rate, (cfm) that is released becomes less due to increased pressure from water depth. Standard air flow rates are available for each type of compressor.

At 8ft deep, RC51's pump is not producing 2 to 2.2 psi as he states. A low pressure air gauge will verify this. If RC's pump was only producing only 2.2 psi, it would not be blowing air out at 8 ft deep but only to a max of 4-4.5ft deep; deeper than that no air is released, unless one increases the air pressure (psi). At 8 ft deep, psi or air pressure has to be 4 psi or no air will come out the hose. An air pressure gauge verifies this fact.

I think RC has psi and cfm confused. Since RC's pump produces 5.1 psi and 7cfm rating (I assume open flow no back pressure/resistance), then at 8 ft deep he probably only gets 2-2.2 cfm of air out his hose at 8 ft deep, because of the max pump pressure of only 5.1 psi that his pump can produce. If his pump had more psi, it would be able to gererate more air flow (volume,cfm) than 2-2.2 cfm at 8 ft deep.

Is all this clear as muddy water? Is so just add some alum, gypsum or lime, and give it time for things to settle, then it might clear up?




Edited by Bill Cody (03/26/11 12:28 PM)
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#252824 - 03/27/11 05:47 PM Re: how many diffusers do i need [Re: Bill Cody]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Hey no problem Bill thanks for the clearing some of that up. Your right I had that backwards my fault! Sorry about that.
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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