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#251319 - 03/13/11 09:28 PM Help I think i messed up
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
I just dug my pond, which is almost 2 acres and an average of 8 - 15 feet deep. I called a local hatchery and told him i wanted a fishery that will be self sustaining, with bass, bluegill, and catfish. He sold me 3500 hybrid bluegill and 10 lbs of fatheads. He told me to wait a a couple months and add the bass and catfish. From what im reading on this board that is not what i should have put. Can i put in some coppernose and red ear, then in a few months put the bass and catfish? I appreciate the help.

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#251321 - 03/13/11 09:41 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Wish you would have found the forum sooner... There are times when hybrid bluegills(HBG) are very appropriate, most times they are not... For a self sustaining fishery, THEY ARE NOT.

How large were the HBG that you stocked?
_________________________
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#251324 - 03/13/11 10:30 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: CJBS2003]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
they were all less than 1", if it helps i am feeding but dont see anyone eating yet

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#251328 - 03/13/11 11:07 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Hello Monty and welcome to the forum! You definitely found the best place for friendly, expert pond management information on the web.

I'm not a LMB fishery expert by any means, but many here are. Even with my limited knowledge I find that stocking advice you related to be questionable.

If you want a self sustaining fishery, my advice to is go ahead and stock CNBG [copper nose bluegill] this Spring. Were it not for your 3500 HBG already stocked, I'd recommend 2-3,000 CNBG. We'll need an expert to chime in here for stocking recommendations.

I think you could have gone heavier on the FHM but I'd simply recommend at this time getting pallets and anchoring them to the shore with rope and a stick of pvc, rebar, or a limb/stick. This will serve as spawning habitat for the FHM. By Summer's end you should be able to walk across the pond on FHM. That's when I'd stock the LMB.

Others will be along shortly with expert advice - fear not you have a great opportunity to build an awesome fishery! Can you tell us the name of the hatchery you used?
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#251330 - 03/13/11 11:25 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
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Uh-Oh....
As CJ stated HBG are not good for a balanced fishery. What size feed are you using right now? A 1" BG won't be able to eat anything very big, unless you're reducing the size of the pellets even further you may not be accomplishing much by trying to feed. Have you asked around to see what size CNBG and RES are available to you?

What size are the LMB you were thinking of adding? Nearly any Bass between 3-8" will adore a 1" BG.

I'm wondering about adding some catfish and 4-6" LMB now, then 3-5" CNBG and RES in a few months, but that's backwards from the usual recommendations.
What would happen if you added the bigger CNBG and RES now, and used the existing HBG as forage for them? Hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself will have a better plan...
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#251340 - 03/14/11 06:39 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: sprkplug]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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You got hosed. The HBG will spawn somewhat but are not what you need. I can only assume that the hatchery guy was better at selling fish than stocking for a balanced pond. The BG and CNBG spawn multiple times in the South to create the sustained forage base needed to feed larger predators.

OK, I don't think all is lost. I would get some 2 to 4 inch CNBG or BG, maybe 1,000, and add to the mix. Some will spawn true and some will cross to create a Green Sunfish. Some consider the green sunfish an undesirable fish. Neither I nor the bass agree with that. Wait about 3 months and add some 3 to 6 inch bass. You can add the catfish now. Along the way, you should have a lot of fun with the HBG and get a lot of fish dinners.

The alternative is to rotenone the whole thing and start over.

More than likely, in either case, you will want at least one feeder. I know that may not meet your idea of a self sustaining, balanced pond. However, ponds are seldom, over time, either balanced or self sustaining.

Did you check your water quality, PH and alkilinity, prior to stocking?

BTW, I would do my fish buying elsewhere in the future. That guy does not have your best interest at heart or is ignorant.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#251350 - 03/14/11 08:44 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
I plan on feeding a lot, the feed i have is small, but i bet it isn't small enough for the little guys, i didn't think of that. I hate to rotenone the pond when i just spent $1,500.00 on hybrid bluegill. i would love to salvage it if i can, and i dont mind a little extra managing. the next closer place to get fish is dunns, there is nobody else in la. thats why i got stuck with the other guy.

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#251351 - 03/14/11 08:49 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
I didnt check my ph and alkilinity, how do i do that? I havent seen any little fish floating, does that mean they survived?

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#251374 - 03/14/11 10:40 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
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Monty first welcome to PB.

Second let's be sure what you have. Unfortunately names get mixed up sometimes. Some hatcheries call BG X CNBG hybrids. They are entirely different from real HBG. We need to know exactly what you have. Ask the hatchery exactly what you got. If the say HBG ( GSF X BG) then ask them why they sold you that when you said a self sustaining fishery. Tell them they need to give you BG or CNBG and come get the HBG if they want them back. The idea is to get the BG for no cost. Offer to buy 1000 and tell them they owe you 3500 more. 4500 2 inch BG/CNBG should work. You have enough room for now for all of both the BG/CNBG and the HBG. Feed smaller feed. Add some more FH say 10 lbs. Then start looking for 8 to 10 inch LMB for stocking in Sept. You will need about 60. As the HBG get bigger start to catch them and eat them (about fall). You will need to learn how to tell them apart. See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459 . You can work through this.




Edited by ewest (03/14/11 10:41 AM)
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#251386 - 03/14/11 11:23 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: ewest]
esshup Offline
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eric, I like your approach!
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#251408 - 03/14/11 01:25 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: esshup]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Monty, contact your local NRCS office and see if they know of anybody like a University or water test labs that can do a water sample test.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#251442 - 03/14/11 06:23 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Dave Davidson1]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Since they are 1", I'd stock 6" LMB now. Allow the LMB to start eating the 3500 HBG, if they are in fact BGxGSF. You can also add some 5"+ BG and RES with the bass.
_________________________
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#251448 - 03/14/11 08:00 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: ewest]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: ewest
Monty first welcome to PB.

Second let's be sure what you have. Unfortunately names get mixed up sometimes. Some hatcheries call BG X CNBG hybrids. They are entirely different from real HBG. We need to know exactly what you have. Ask the hatchery exactly what you got. If the say HBG ( GSF X BG) then ask them why they sold you that when you said a self sustaining fishery. Tell them they need to give you BG or CNBG and come get the HBG if they want them back. The idea is to get the BG for no cost. Offer to buy 1000 and tell them they owe you 3500 more. 4500 2 inch BG/CNBG should work. You have enough room for now for all of both the BG/CNBG and the HBG. Feed smaller feed. Add some more FH say 10 lbs. Then start looking for 8 to 10 inch LMB for stocking in Sept. You will need about 60. As the HBG get bigger start to catch them and eat them (about fall). You will need to learn how to tell them apart. See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459 . You can work through this.



This is sage advice from an attorney I would follow. Mentioning the fact the Pond Boss community is FOLLOWING this situation doesn't hurt you, either. I'm hopeful your hybrids are in fact true BG. Tell them to make it right ASAP and that many eyes are following this thread.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#251461 - 03/14/11 08:49 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: ewest]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
Originally Posted By: ewest
Monty first welcome to PB.

Second let's be sure what you have. Unfortunately names get mixed up sometimes. Some hatcheries call BG X CNBG hybrids. They are entirely different from real HBG. We need to know exactly what you have. Ask the hatchery exactly what you got. If the say HBG ( GSF X BG) then ask them why they sold you that when you said a self sustaining fishery. Tell them they need to give you BG or CNBG and come get the HBG if they want them back. The idea is to get the BG for no cost. Offer to buy 1000 and tell them they owe you 3500 more. 4500 2 inch BG/CNBG should work. You have enough room for now for all of both the BG/CNBG and the HBG. Feed smaller feed. Add some more FH say 10 lbs. Then start looking for 8 to 10 inch LMB for stocking in Sept. You will need about 60. As the HBG get bigger start to catch them and eat them (about fall). You will need to learn how to tell them apart. See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459 . You can work through this.




That is the greatest idea.. I hope you do this. And honestly i wouldnt worry about hurting the fisheries feelings obviously he didnt care about yours.. Keep us updated on this. Your fishery is in no way ruined but this definately changes your management approach, in my opinion to more difficult..
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#251465 - 03/14/11 09:08 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Good advice so far. Assuming you have true HBG, I think your pond will be okay for a long term balance if you leave the HBG in and then start fishing them out when they get big enough for you to clean/harvest as suggested by Ewest. I would not stock bass now to eat the small HBG. Let them grow and harvest them. Regular BG (CNBG) will eventually out-pace the HBG because HBG have a pretty low reproducive rate. Initialy do not overharvest your bass so they establish a good density early and they prey well on the young HBG. Eventually the HBG will develop low density compared to pure BG.
PS - 1" HBG from the 2010 year spawn are unusually small, probably due to overcrowding in the hatchery pond. By right or good fish mangagement methods they should be 2"-4"long.


Edited by Bill Cody (03/14/11 09:14 PM)
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#251466 - 03/14/11 09:50 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
Hey,
I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving, the guy said he understood that i wanted the georgia giants, which is all he had at the time. I really didn't want to argue with the guy so I called Dunns fish farm and ordered 2500 coppernose bluegill, 400 shellcrackers, 400 catfish, and 10 lbs of fatheads. The catfish are ok right, my wife really wants them. I'll add the bass in september like you said, I added tons of structure, to the pond, should i add a bottom diffuser or an aerator?

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#251468 - 03/14/11 10:01 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
i wanted to add more cnbg like ewest suggested but this is about all i could afford, will it work?

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#251472 - 03/14/11 10:21 PM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
Bluegill Fever Offline


Registered: 08/25/10
Posts: 99
Loc: Lexington,North Carolina
Channel Catfish are good with a Largemouth, Coppernose combination. The only thing I see is when your catfish get big enough take them out. Channel Catfish are a put and take fish they do not spawn unless you put out buckets and other enclosed structure in there. Since you have 2 acres you should be fine with that many catfish. It should work.
_________________________
Take someone new fishing at your pond. They'll be hooked forever.
1 acre LMB/HBG/BG pond

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#251482 - 03/15/11 01:30 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Monty M
Hey,
I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving, the guy said he understood that i wanted the georgia giants, which is all he had at the time.


That right there says it all. mad (Not mad at you, search Georgia Giants here and read.....)
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www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#251491 - 03/15/11 08:07 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: esshup]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
YUP!

I see no way that any fish seller could mistake self sustaining forage as being Georgia Giants or any other HBG.


Edited by Dave Davidson1 (03/15/11 08:08 AM)
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#251527 - 03/15/11 11:22 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Dave Davidson1]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Can you tell us who sold you the GG ? I would not put that many CC in your pond. 100 would be more than enough. Only 150 pre acre are suggested if there are no other fish. The rest will work over time. Since you went a little low on the CNBG I would reduce the size of the LMB to 8 inch.

Catch and eat the GG and CC as soon as they are big enough to eat (early and often).
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#252207 - 03/21/11 11:19 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: ewest]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
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Loc: Ball Ground, GA
You ended up putting in quite a bit of forage so the bass wil grow well also. You will have a great pond if you continue to follow the PB advice being given.
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Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#252209 - 03/21/11 11:21 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: ewest]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
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Loc: Ball Ground, GA
You ended up putting in quite a bit of forage so the bass wil grow well also. You will have a great pond if you continue to follow the PB advice being given. I second the motion on less catfish. I also suggest a reliable feeder you have lots of fish to feed. What about HSB to help keep the GG in check?
_________________________
Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#252313 - 03/22/11 08:22 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Greg Grimes]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
I got the GG from shepards fish hatchery in louisiana, and as far as putting less catfish in the pond that's going to be hard, that is the main fish my wife wanted, she asked me last night to put around 1000 catfish in so she can cook catfish 3 or 4 times a week. Thats her and our 3 kids favorite food. would it hurt putting extra catfish in if we feed a lot and start taking them out as soon as they are big enough? the guy at dunns said he wants to stock my fingerling bass now also, since hes delivering the fish so he doesnt have to come back. he says it will be ok if we put small bass in, will that work?

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#252314 - 03/22/11 08:23 AM Re: Help I think i messed up [Re: Monty M]
Monty M Offline


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 45
Loc: South Louisiana
Also guys, can you stock tilapia in louisiana, it seems like a good idea from what im reading here.

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