Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Operation Goat Pond

We kicked off the construction of our pond this week. After more than 2 years of PONDering (i.e. - saving, researching, planning, approvals, and contractor selection)we're moving forward. It'll be 3 acres at normal pool level fed by a creek with a steady flow plus ~ 400 acre watershed. It will certainly be interesting to see the technique in building the dam with the water flow. Other specs: 2:1 slope for the front of the dam; 3:1 slope for the back of the dam; 48" riser pipe; 24" barrel pipe through the dam; and an 8" shear gate on the front if we ever need to drain it. Pictures will be added during the process. We've hunted this tract for several years now and hate to see this creek-bottom habitat change, but we have high expectations that the pond will only enhance the wildlife habitat and viewing opportunities.

Hey Kiko Welcome to PB....see those two big piles in pic #3...rather than burn them .....cover them somewhere in the NW area of the pond!!!

Panoramic video clips of the partially cleared creek bottom are available at http://www.youtube.com/user/BakersAcresRanch. The rain has finally eased up long enough to resume clearing after a couple of weeks of crazy Winter weather.

Couple of Questions:
1. Should we leave some standing timber in the upper end for duck habitat?
2. What are fencing options to cross a creek below the dam?

Thanks, Dave

Hey Dave
#1 Answer...DuckBass habitat....YES
#2 Answer...??
#3 Now I see why you call it the Goat pond! I haven't seen a 30 second old goat in years...brings back memories of my childhood in S.Ga......we used to bar-b-que um, do yall? ( not the newborns :))

Cool. Thanks. We've not done a whole goat but, the demand exceeds the supply for them! And without the ag exemption, this pond wouldn't be happening. Long live the goat!!!

Saw your overflow specs....that seems way too small to me for a year round flowing creek! Is the 400acres what flows into the creek or just "nearby" watershed? If that creek is more than a halfmile long before it reaches your dam, I'll give odds that watershed will be a whole lot bigger than 400 acres.

You may want to consider a good sized siphon overflow system to supplement your drainage....it would be a real shame to see all your work and dreams get washed away with the first big rain if drainage is underestimated!

We're extending the length of the spillway from the originally planned 75' to more than 100' to assist with the 48" intake.

If you invited a bunch of us Pond Meisters over to meticulously examine your pond we would be....






....Men Who Stare At Goat Ponds.

Got the core dug on both sides of the creek out this week. Had to go 16'. These pics are after the backfill with Carolina red clay dirt. The spillway is what's on top of the hill where most of the clay for the core is coming from. Once we get the through pipe laid, we'll divert the water from the creek through the pipe and continue with the rest of the core below the creek, then building the dam.

More clearing and burning this week. The pipe is scheduled to be delivered Monday so we can continue with the dam. These photos show the left and right side of dam with creek running through it right now. We'll divert the creek with the pipe, continue the core through the creek bed then begin backfilling while installing the pipe.

Photos include dam views.

Kiko, that is one beautiful place. I can't wait to see how it looks when it is full.

Thanks. I can't either but I talked with a local fisheries biologist this week. What he told me is not what I wanted to hear but after additional research online, it seems consistent. Given the expense of this project, we will be patient and follow the expert's advise. Here it is:

1. After completing the pond (Operation Goat Pond), lime it, disc it in, then plant it with browntop millet for the summer. We are building this pond at the worst possible time for fish stocking, so we will delay filling the pond (stream fed)until the Fall.

2. Filling the pond this Summer will allow the native creek-fed fish to flourish and overtake the pond. Before filling the pond, we will kill native fish in the creek with Rotenone.

3. Stock with Bream in the Fall/Winter then follow up with LMB later in the Spring. 10:1 Bream to LMB ratio/acre. (3:1 bluegill to shellcracker) Bream1000/acre; LMB 100/acre; CC 100/acre.

We were on track to stock this month w/ Bream & CC and LMB in the Fall - just the opposite of what we should be doing! I know advice and opinions are free, but you can't argue with success - so I'm going with it.

This advice is backed up with more than 40 yrs of research and very consistent with dept of natural resources and academic institutions' published research. Their's not a lot of guesswork to be done. It seems there is a formula for establishing a new pond for optimal recreational fishing that impacts the life of the pond.

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Sources:
* South Carolina Fish Pond Management Guide - has an excellent glossary of terms.
* Farm Fish Pond Management - SCDNR
* Gen Hayes - SC fisheries biologist (ret.)

I don't understand

1) what the reasoning behind growing brown top millet and letting the pond lie unfilled until the Fall.

and 2) How he heck can you rotenone the whole creek to ensure none of the fish are alive to make it to your pond? Is the creek not that big before it reaches your pond? Is the creek completely on your land from origin to the pond?

Won't the creek flow into the pond after it's used to fill the pond?

I wonder just how many years of research and hands-on experience at managing ponds is here on the forum between the experts that are here???

1.) The millett is just to hold the soil. The point is buying time to get in sync with the proper timing of fish stocking per #3 above.

2.) Rotenone would be applied prior to filling the pond. It can only be applied by a certified person so I'm assuming they'll do it in accordance with regulations. Once the stocked fish get established the native fish incoming upstream will always be on the short-side rather than the opposite. If the native fish get established in the pond prior to the stockers, the stockers will be playing catch-up.

I'm not the expert - just doing a lot of reading. Read at least the sources listed above, before questioning me because I can't answer. Just refute the information contained therein.

I know of a guy who dug a pond. Then diverted a creek to keep it full. He stocked YP and some other fish. Worked for a year or so, but now it is full of creek fish. Mostly suckers and bullhead. He is stuck with it now because he did not get permits to do what he did in the first place.

Got the permits, etc. The pond is creek fed as it's water source so I'll always have the introduction of native fish. BTW, the creek is ~ 1/2 mile long upstream with a ground spring as it's source. Per my DNR fisheries biologist, without an established predatory fish (LMB) in place the native fish will take over and the stocked fish won't be able to catch up.

I believe I would do my own checking about poisoning a public stream of any kind. I'm not even sure it will work in running water but I'm not an expert.

I was advised to wait also. my pond was finished in June of 2008. They told me to wait until about february to stock my bg. I couldnt wait. i stocked the bg within a few months and bass a little later. I have caught very few gsf out of my pond. i have probably caught 150 bg in the last 2 weeks and not a single gsf.

Hey Dave! Who owns the 1/2 mile creek? Where does the creek go after it leaves your property? Do you know either of them? In rainy times is the creek fed by other sources ie adjacent creeks, rivers, ponds etc? Can you divert the creek around your pond completely and just use the same groundwater that feeds the creek to feed your pond? Did you not hit water somewhere before the 16' depth? What kind of nightmare fish are native in a 1/2 mile creek that you can't kill or don't want in your pond? Does your research indicate that undesirable native fish are bubbling up out of the groundwater that is feeding the creek??? Did you ever leave church and find a goat standing on the roof of your new Cutlass Supreme eating the vinyl roof off?? I did! Why do they call Anderson the "Electric City"
Just Curious Ken S

I personally won't be doing it. My consultant will. He is a retired SC fisheries biologist that knows the protocols on doing this.

The creek above me runs through several properties. The Rotenone would be applied on my property with the valve closed. I understand it dissapates w/in 30 days max so they'll be no threat downstream either.
No way to permanently divert the creek. It's actually one of the key features for this pond which will keep it full, rather than depending on runoff. After my stocked population gets established the threat from native fish is gone since they won't have had a chance to take root with LMB & bream on their tails.
Yeah we hit water digging the core - that's why we had to go so deep for the core.
As far as the goats are concerned - they've topped tractors, sheds, trees, rockpiles, and stumps, but no Buicks!

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"Anderson was dubbed "The Electric City" in 1895 when William C. Whitner, an engineer and native of Anderson, built a hydroelectric power plant which was the first in the South to transmit electricity over long distances. The plant, in McFall's Mill at High Shoals on the Rocky River 6 mi. E, supplied power to light the city and also operated several small industries in Anderson. In 1897 Whitner replaced the
experimental plant with a larger generated station at Portman Shoals 11 mi. W on the Seneca River. The extra power from this plant powered Anderson Cotton Mills and a streetcar line which was the forerunner of the Piedmont & Northern RR. Both plants pioneered in transmitting high voltage electricity direct from the station switchboard. This innovation helped spur the modern industrialization of the Southeast." - you asked for it!

Scott69, So you would concur in waiting based on what you're seeing?

We got 2.25" of rain between yesterday and today so things are a bit muddy. Atached are photos from the mid and upper end of the pond looking back toward the dam. The bridge will lend reliable access the other side of the creek. You can see the creek channel with pleanty of stumps for habitat.

What kind of fish are in the creek now?

I'll catch some in a net and get a pic of them when i can.