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#238689 - 10/20/10 06:37 PM Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited
pandscorp Offline


Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SW Ohio
I have started an urban farming program, and some of my research has been focused on using human urine as an organic fertilizer. Urine is usually sterile when it leaves the body, and is regarded as one of the most complete organic fertilizers that can be found. It has already been tested in several studies for vegetable crop production, with outstanding results. So, now as I have been reading about the benefits of fertilizing ponds (which is contrary to where they want to remove nutrients from our rivers), I figured this must be a great opportunity that is probably being overlooked by most.
As a garden fertilizer, the recommended dilution is 1 part urine for every 10 parts water. That would be around 13oz per gallon of fertilizer. IF my math is right, that would be a need for 24 times as much urine than a water added fertilizer such as Miracle Gro. But hey, it's free, unlimited, and easy to collect & apply. Since it is so much weaker, that would make it simple to experiment with, especially on a pond that has not been fertilized prior. Also since it is weaker, it should be easier in some sense to apply safely and get even distribution.
I know that since I already have a weed problem (see "40 acre pond"), I will have to deal with that separately. Since my ponds are large, I'm thinking about only fertilizing in certain areas, and seeing how far it spreads . . . see if I can observe an increase in phyto-plankton where I fertilize, and lesser levels furthest from the location.

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#238791 - 10/21/10 09:04 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: pandscorp]
pandscorp Offline


Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SW Ohio
I also thought of a way to simplify adding the "fertilizer". Thanks to our local Pepsi distribution center, I have access to 13 gal. & 55 gal plastic barrels. My idea is to submerge a covered container in the pond so that the top is a few inches below the surface. Leave the "plug" out, or cut a 1" to 2" hole if using a 5 gallon bucket with lid on fast. Run a hose out and to the bottom of your container. Liquid fertilizer can then be poured down the hose and will come out at the bottom of your container. This will force liquid out the top that has been diluted, leaving full strength solution always closest to the bottom of your container.
This should allow you to regularly add "fertilizer" without worrying about concentration, and without having to go out on your pond.
If you plan on collecting and adding large amounts, set it up so that the "fertilizer" drains slowly into the hose from your source on shore. That way it will also be slowly mixing in with pond water at the top of your container.

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#238810 - 10/21/10 10:41 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: pandscorp]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
Sounds inefficient IMHO. but let me know how it works for ya.. You shouldn't need fertilizer.. Also who will be funding this operation.. Alot of time (in my area) DNR or state will renovate the pits. And if an idividual wants to renovate something they wouldn't let them due too liability, funding. Who owns this property your wanting to fix up? Is it private property? State owned? Rock company own it? There's slot of obstacles to get around. They most likely not just gonna say "this guys got a good idea" here you go do whatever you want.. Then again they might say go for it
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#238815 - 10/21/10 11:08 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
pandscorp Offline


Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SW Ohio
It is now a county owned park. A retired local Parks & Rec director is going to help me put together a proposal that will include several options for funding. I see potential for renting boats and selling bait & tackle, I will find out what grants will be avialable, and counties are eligable for a wide variety. Also, I will do all that I possibly can without funding, and so far interest from locals in helping me sounds very strong.
On fertilizer, I keep reading that a well fertilized water will simply produce more and larger fish because it effects the food chain from the bottom up. I wouldn't spend any money on it though and am excited to experiment with the "free fertilizer" that I have in abundance.
I am simply hoping to compile a list of things to carefully consider, and at least so far I am getting questions that I will try to answer.
I have to decide how detailed a proposal I want when I first approach them, or if a basic summary would be in order simply to get permission to do some of the testing that is necessary. They very likely have done some testing of there own, but it seems like they invest very little money into the fishing potential of this park. It has asmall conference center, and that seems to be the priority to them. I hope to see that changed.

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#238817 - 10/21/10 11:29 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: pandscorp]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
I don't think you want to mention Urine fertilizer to the county..
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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#238822 - 10/21/10 12:28 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
I urine fertilize my property all the time.

Of course I'm not using the whole dilution regiment.
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#238825 - 10/21/10 01:09 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: jeffhasapond]
pandscorp Offline


Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SW Ohio
BGK: keeping that detail quiet might be a good idea, unless they press for information. Anyone willing to spend a few minutes looking it up on line, would see that it is always mentioned as a safe and reasonable fertilizer. In gardening it is funny because people will pile cow manure(which is soaked in cow urine too) on their garden, yet flip at the thought of using human urine, which is generally clinically sterile when it leaves the body.

JHAP: What! And you aren't spending evry other day in the hospital?
Seriously though, that's awesome. My concern is that as much as fertilizing is mentioned as a productivity increaser, and as much as "cost" is referenced, I feel more people need to know the truth about urine. It's ideal, it's basically free, and it's basically unlimited.
The only reason I mentioned the dilution is because for those who are carefully managing a specific sized pond, they would need to know recommended rates for any fertilizer they were using.

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#238836 - 10/21/10 03:47 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: jeffhasapond]
Todd3138 Offline
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Loc: North Central WV
Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
I urine fertilize my property all the time.

Of course I'm not using the whole dilution regiment.



laugh
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#238883 - 10/21/10 10:36 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Todd3138]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Improper application can kill the grass in certain parts of the back yard.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#238896 - 10/22/10 05:34 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Greg2010 Offline
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Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 34
Loc: S. California/Philippines
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Improper application can kill the grass in certain parts of the back yard.


Dilution with the appropriate beverage is the key! grin
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#238910 - 10/22/10 08:55 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Greg2010]
keith_rowan Offline


Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 180
Loc: fairport harbor, ohio
i'm running a small aquaponics system, using a growbed to filter my fish tank water.. an australian message board has provided me with all kinds of tips.. one user experimented with just using urea in her system (pee ponics?) and all plants did quite well.. this was on a very small scale compared to 40 acres though..
human urea will take about 2 weeks to convert to ammonia. if you're getting the urea from multiple sources, you might run the risk of chemicals getting into it (if you're on antibiotics it will affect your pee)

a local fish farmer dumps horse poo into his ponds for fertilization

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#239244 - 10/25/10 09:56 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: pandscorp]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: pandscorp
... I feel more people need to know the truth about urine. It's ideal, it's basically free, and it's basically unlimited.

And it's basically Nitrogen (no Phosphorus or Potassium in Urea, the chief chemical component), which is rarely if ever the limiting factor in pond fertility (since N2 is freely absorbed from the atmosphere).

Plus, if you've been eating asparagus, it makes your pond smell funny.
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"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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#239296 - 10/26/10 02:25 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Theo Gallus]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Never known of using Urea in ponds as N is rarely the missing element. We use it on food plots for deer and turkey. What is usually missing in ponds (water) is the P of NPK fertilizer(no pun intended).

In aquatic organisms the most common form of nitrogen waste is ammonia, while land-dwelling organisms convert the toxic ammonia to either urea or uric acid. Urea is found in the urine of mammals and amphibians, as well as some fish. Ammonia (NH3) is another common byproduct of the metabolism of nitrogenous compounds. Ammonia is smaller, more volatile and more mobile than urea. If allowed to accumulate, ammonia would raise the pH in cells to toxic levels. Therefore many organisms convert ammonia to urea, even though this synthesis has a net energy cost. Being highly soluble in water urea if converted to ammonia can cause problems in ponds.

Ammonia in Fish Ponds

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/111/.

I have to wonder if the fish are thinking Ė man donít pee in my water and tell me itís raining.
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#239300 - 10/26/10 02:58 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: ewest]
Gflo Offline
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Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 169
Loc: CA
I don't see how adding urea to the pond would be in any way beneficial. The fish are already "peeing" ammonium ions out of their gills 24/7. Seems kind of pointless.
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#239365 - 10/27/10 08:33 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Gflo]
andedammen Offline
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Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Norway
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#239369 - 10/27/10 09:54 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: andedammen]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Ande that is a lot about urine.
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#239405 - 10/27/10 06:41 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: ewest]
andedammen Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: ewest
Ande that is a lot about urine.


I agre but it covers most bases and is good reading.
Here is a short link on pee
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/8357134.stm

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-g...-revolution.htm
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#240530 - 11/07/10 08:36 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: andedammen]
cellog Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 10
Loc: n.w. ohio
I have found that miller lite or similar product helps with the fertilizing.

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#240709 - 11/11/10 06:39 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: cellog]
pandscorp Offline


Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SW Ohio
Thanks for clarifying that for me folks. I didn't realize that it was all about the "P", and not the high "N" in the "Pee". Urine does have decent "P", but is much higher in "N".
That makes me wonder if using the urine to compost leaves and then later adding compost tea from totally finished compost would have much benefit. ??

Ande - thanks for the awesome document on urine diversion. I'll be linking that on my site.

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#248476 - 02/16/11 10:39 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: pandscorp]
Revill Offline


Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 12
Loc: Austin Tx
As far as using urine as a garden fertilizer, I've done it for years (in the dark). I've not noticed any significant productivity improvement, but the squirrels leave my tomatoes and lettuces alone.

Revill

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#248479 - 02/16/11 10:47 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Revill]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I think I would too.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#248484 - 02/16/11 11:01 AM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: Dave Davidson1]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Also keeps the deer away. Pee on a rag and stick it on a fence post. My mom read about it in a gardening magazine.

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#248545 - 02/16/11 10:22 PM Re: Free fertilzer: organic, unlimited [Re: JKB]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I recently saw a clip on the History Channel about fertilizer. They said that human urine was a good 3-1-2 balance as a lawn fertilizer.

However it is a weak one.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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