Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Northern Ponds Long Winters Nap

Getting ready to put our new pond (built in July and filled in late August)to bed for it's long winters nap. It's about 1 1/2 acres and max depth of 15 feet. Stocked with a small sentry fatheads, blue gill, and big mouth bass.

Would like to hear comments and input on:
Do we aerate or not over the winter? Why or why not.
What other prep is done for the winter?
Do you clear off snow and if so how?

Let's hear from all you Northern Pond owners.

Tuzz, my pond isn't far from Callicoon N.Y., but Ilive in NYC. The property has no electric yet, so an aerator isn't happening. About all I do is crack open the gate valve so the vale standpipe system doesn't freeze and burst. I don't shovel snow or clear anything, and all fish survived last year and you know how much snow we had. Oh, the pond is 4 1/2 acres with a max depth of 28', and fish species include LM bass, Bluegill, yellow perch, catfish, fatheads, and a couple of other sunfish.This year I had to remove the floating dock.

Jimmy,

We have about 1 1/2 acre pond. Maximum depth is 15 feet.

Why did you have to remove the dock? I'm looking into making a floating dock.

Have you thought about a wind powered aerator? I'v read that they work well.

How old is your pond? It's good to hear that it wintered over well with last winter as it was a bad one.

Need to get togetheer some time. You are not that far from us.

Here are some recent photos of our pond:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=n8oli27.3j4ld0z3&x=0&y=-c959cc

Tuzz,

Jimmy no doubt removed the dock to prevent damage from Ice. Ice can do alot of damage to anything in the pond that is in or above the freeze area. (Huge amount of crushing/twisting force)

One thing about wind powered aerators is you seldom get the aeration when you really want it and you lose alot of the ability to control your aeration efforts. (However they do serve a purpose certainly in areas without power)

Thanks for the input. I thought it might be ice damage. Is that more for floating docks or all docks? I also wonder what will happen to the stone pier the excavator layed in place for me. It is made of 2 hugh stones with 2 more very large flat stones layed across. The flat stones are at water level. Guess time will tell.

Mostly a risk for piers then floating docks but the ice can will cause some damage through comprssion forces, freezing/thawing/refreezing... wind blowing ice flows etc., you might get lucky and have minimal damage but if you can easily remove the dock then better safe then sorry. I have a floating dock in now that I may not be able to remove so I am going to hook up some minimal aeration under it to stop the ice from solidly forming against it. Should work out ok and you could do the same if removal isn't an option.
Depending on the weight/size/shape of the rocks/boulders you mention you may be ok, lucky thing about most ponds is there is little water movement which reduces alot of possible ice damage. You may find that the upper boulders get shifted though.

Tuzz, that's a nice looking pond. I really like the rock pier, I had thought about doing something similar, but ended up buiding the dock. Pottsy hit the nail on the head as far as pulling the dock out, afraid of ice damage. I had thought of a wind powered aerator,but it was a bang for the buck decision. After purchasing the 48 acre property Jan 02, and putting in a 1500' driveway so freinds and family could enjoy, money tightened up a little. Expenditures for the pond have been stocking bluegills and fatheads(there were none), and material for the dock (built it myself,and you know the price of the floatation). The pondwas built by the previous owner (an operating engineer) in the early 70's, he used it to raise and sell LMB. The bass were stunted at 8 to 12 inches, but now we are catching bass up to 15 and 16 inches with little bellies on them

Tuzz,
I have a 6 1/2 acre pond with a max depth of 18'in Southern Michigan and have never had a fish kill over winter during the 9+ years that I've owned it. I do however clear about 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface of snow as soon as the ice will support a Honda ATV with a front plow. I clear a large figure 8 shaped area so the kids and I can race the Hondas and also have the benefit of allowing the sun to penatrate thru the ice.
I have 2 docks, one extending 57' and one 60'
out into the water. They were made about 6-7 years ago out of scrap 1 1/2' water pipe welded together and have 24" disc blades on the bottom for support and treated 5/4" deck boards for the top. Neither dock has ever been taken out and again no problems.
I have no electricity at the pond so I do not airate and due to it being 90% surrounded by woods I don't have enough wind for a windmill.
Lots of good advice here and experiences that other posters will share with you. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do and the results.
Dan

I've been "out" for a couple days & I will work on your questions.
The pond is not napping during winter. Lots to things happening under the icecover. The same things are happening during winter as during open water seasons but they are just happening slower due to colder water. Things are living and dying under the ice. Water chemistries are changing daily. Sediment activities are still occuring just slowrer. About the only things napping are the frogs and turtles who hibernate in the mud. The pond muds and bottom areas, depending on depth into the sediment, are relatively warm 42F to 48F compared to the ice cap and water just below the ice. The water just above the bottom ranges from 40F to 44F depending on depth above the bottom. Inbetween water is 39F

1. Young or new ponds typically do not need aeration during the first several winters. Need for Winter aeration of northern ponds is caused mostly by high organic loads or deposits on the sediments and extended periods of deep snow cover.

A. The abundant organic deposits on the bottom cause high oxygen demands year-round. However the oxygen consumed by the decomposing organic materials in sediments is greater (due to temeperature) in the summer than during the winter. You will not need aeration during winter until the sediment deposits get thicker due to several years of accumuilation and how much is deposited each year. Some use aeration to keep some water open and allow light penetration for oxygenation. Winter aeration during ice cover supercools the water to temps below 39F which can be stressful for fish.

B. Snow cover on a pond blankets out the sunlight and all plants esp micro phytoplankton start dying. This death cause lots of oxygen cunsumption due to bacterial decay of the additional dead organics. No light penetration results in no oxygen production during day light periods, so the pond organisms have to survive on the oxygen stored in the water column. When stored oxygen drops below 3 ppm fish start suffocating. Obviously the deeper the pond the more oxygen that is stored in the overlying water volume.

Advanced Info. Ability of oxygen storage in pondwater during winter is not just a matter of water volume; large acreage ponds doing better vs smaller ponds during winter. In the north it is important to have greater depth over the sediments versus large areas of water over shallower depths. This gets into ratios of sediment surface areas to overlying water volume (depths). The higher the volume to surface ratio the longer the stored oxygen will last.

Keeping abt 20% to 40% of the snow cover off ice is usually adequate to provide enough oxygen production during ice cover. Light penetrates ice much better than snow. Try not to let snow cover lay on the entire pond longer than 2-3 weeks before some of it is removed.

2. Not much preperation is needed before winter unless you have lots of leaves that drop or blow into the pond. Try to remove as many leaves from the surface before they sink as possible. This decaying leaf matter is a big consumer of oxygen. Also if you catch fish in fall or early winter be very careful how you handle them. Handle them as little as possible. Maybe even unhook them under water!!. DO NOT drag them on the ground or mishandle them. This wipes lots of slime off the fish. Slime layer protects the fish from cold water fungus and parasites/disease. The fish do not replace slime quickly during cold water and fish can get "sick" often die much later during winter or early spring.

3. Snow removel methods are your own best common sense. I shovel lots of my snow off. It gets me out of the house on late afternoon weekends, gives me winter excerscise, and helps the pond. If you have kids get them to help so they can ice skate/play on the ice. I remove the snow in strips, each 4 to 7 ft wide the entire length of the pond. If you want to skate you may need to remove wide areas. Some use snow blowers or four weelers with blades to quickly push/blow snow off the ice. Verify ice thicknesss before using heavy machinery on the ice. Ice under thick snow 8" to 12" freezes slower and is usually thinner that ice with no or little snow cover. Snow acts as insulation for layers underneath.

Postscript. The windmill aerators will only mix about 1/4 to 3/4acre of surface water regardles of how big of a pond or lake they are put in. They have limits and only create so much energy to disapate into the surrounding water. Obviously the more energy generated the greater the output and water volume that can be mixed; weak vs strong forces.

Bill,

Thanks for the great comments. Makes sense about the aeration on a new pond. Wonder the benefits of winter aeration vs. not if we aerate the rest of the year and keep the sediment under control that way. Seems like it may be a good idea not to aerate during winter but to keep snow cover off part of teh pond so that oxygen can be generated by plant growth under ice.

My stone pier is made up of car size stones. I know ice can do nasty things so time will tell wether it was a good idea to create the pier this way. Right now you could probably drive a car over them with out moving them but who knows what the northern ice will do.

Bill,
Dan,
Jimmy,

Thanks to all on the inputs. A lot of good advice. We would like to ice skate on our pond this winter too. I have ATV and may try to plow. Guess I worry about when the ice will hold the ATV. We surely will get a hard freeze hear as well this winter. May also get very deep snow cover if this winter is like last. I know that deep snow cover keeps the ice from getting too thick so the dilema is when to try and plow. The last thing I want to do is put my ATV in 15 feet of water.

How did you sink those pipes to attach your floating pier. Using the ice as a tool tool is one way I've been thinking about.

Thanks,
Paul
(Tuzz)

Your pond will generate very little sediment between now and freeze up unless it is leaf deposits.

When you plow snow with the ATV first plow around the edges. They will be thinnest but if you go through you will be in shallow water. All the air in the tires will keep it from sinking. Just have someone close by to throw you a rope. If you don't let the snow build up too deep, ice thickness will get thicker pretty fast as much as 1" per day when temp is below 10F.

Throw me a rope....ouch! Almost lost a tractor in the pond already that had bad brakes. Thanks for the input on starting along the edges. I guess when the edge is thick enough the rest of the rest of the pond should be geting there too as long as the snow cover is not too deep. Guess I'll shovel in the beginning.

Tuzz you forgot to tell Mr. cody about the 18% organic water inflow which has been elavated to almost 25%FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS