Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Need some help repairing a pond

Just found the site and it has a wealth on information and I am still reading Thank you

I have a small Old Cattle Pond that used to hold water 3' or so for ever and about 8 years ago the pond started leaking and has been dry for the past several years. Last year I took a bobcat and cleaned it out and put several thousand pounds of bentonite in out after I scraped everything off. Unfortunately that didn't work. The pond is about 30 yards by 30 yards and used to be used by the cattle to cool off. I was not able to find the leak when I removed a couple feet of soil. Is the best thing to do to try and fix it is Coring the Pond? Getting down to Rock or Clay and try and find the leak? It can rain two inches and within hours the puddles go dry in most spots I just can't understand it. It does have a small dam on one side. do I need to dig down until I hit clay or rock? Would i be better off bringing clay in and compacting in ? Thanks for any help

Ive had either no luck or no skill with bentonite.

I think I would try the 2 ft of compacted clay.

The bentonite was an expensive waste for sure

So would you dig out two feet and replace with good clay or would you go ahead and core the dam as deep as needed and then come in with the clay ? it is probably 70 yrs old and I doubt it has ever been cored
Unfortunately i am going to have to pay someone to do the work

If you've already sunk the money into the bentonite, I'd try tilling it into the bottom of the pond and then compacting the mix as much as possible....ideally with a rolling compactor, or with numerous passes of a vehicle or tractor if a compactor is not handy. Or you could always put your cattle feed trough in the middle of the former pond and allow them to compact the bottom of it for you.

Bentonite shrinks and swells so much, that if just placed on the pond bottom, without mixing into the existing soil, will crack, displace, and not form a good seal. By mixing with the existing soil, you get a thicker layer that forms a seal and does not dry out as fast resulting in the problematic shrinkage cracks.

Last summer it was tilled in, drove over and over with the bobcat to compact it and the cattle used it as they feed area so it got mixed in really well. I have thought about digging a brand new one and filling the old one in but it might be too much $$$ to build plus the old one is in the perfect area for runoff from a big hill. It is amazing how it just won't hold anything I have never seen anything like it. I'm thinking coring the dam and then several loads of good solid clay will do it but then again I really thought cleaning it out and packing it down with the bentonite was going to work as well. I just don't know enough about coring one out to really know if it will work. There must be a crack all the way across or a rock bottom to drain that quickly, it seems the water must go straight down and possibly run along the rock and drain out the dam side but I have been out there during the heavy rain and right after and I don't see any excessive water leaking below the dam. I thought if that was were the leak was surely I would see some water coming out but I don't. Very strange.

Is the native soil real rocky or sandy?

Just a wild guess, the one hard winter ice froze deep and strong and the expansion within the concrete shape forced a crack open along the weakest aspect of the structure, you can probably can find the crack by using a rigid thin rod and probing.

A crack like that can be raked open and silicone or cement used to close it up

Regards, andy
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Can you use the bobcat to peel back all of the soil and possibly get a better look at the source of the leak?

the soil is not rocky or sandy it is just an old cattle farm there is a smaller pond 30 yards away that is 3 ft deep and 1/2 the size that stays full go figure

My plan is going to be to hire someone to bring in a skidloader and start digging it away, my guess is there has to be a crack across the entire bottom as fast as water drains out. we did dig a 4 ft hole with the bobcat and it will hold water for a couple of weeks then it either drains or evaporation just as a test. Most quotes I have been given run around 1K to dig it out, repair and it and core it. that is 85-120 an hour on a front loader. Does that seem reasonable ? It costs me 400 to rent a bobcat a day so having someone with more expertise is probably worth the time when I do it I'm not sure a bobcat can core it, it can certainly find the leak I hope

Tigershark.....where are you in KY? I'm in Louisville and in talks with a contractor to come in and dog out some rocks for me. It is beyond a little skidsteer work, so I'm going to leave it to a pro.

buzz

Buckner, I have a guy in Shelbyville who charges $100 and hour with a 10 hr minimum and another guy in Oldham county who has never Cored a pond but has all the equipment, the guy is Shelbyville builds them all the time more experience but wants to wait until the summer. I want to do it soon so the spring rains can fill it up and we can move the cattle back in

I've been talking to a guy from Auburn, KY and he is supposed to get back to me as the weather gets better. (if it ever does)
I'd like to get the names of your contractors to get some other opinions (everyone has one of those, too)
Being closer than Auburn would be a plus, I believe.

buzzworthyus@yahoo.com

Thanks to all here, this site teaches me something everytime I log on!

email sent

$1000 minimum is pretty standard...it costs anywhere from $200-$300 just to move a big piece of equipment.

Okay I have an update, i spoke with someone who actually dug the pond out 10 years ago and about 4 feet down he said he hit rock and there is a large crack all the way across the bottom of the pond. there is about 3 feet of dirt on top of the rock as the bottom of the pond.

My question is how repairable is this and what method is best to fix a large crack? Cement ? Clay? Is it worth trying to fix? I don't
Thanks everyone

It depends on whether concrete would wind up in China. The only way to figure it out is by draining and then assessing.

Dave,

there isn't any water in it so we have to dig down about 3-4 feet and remove the dirt and take a look first. My question is before I spent a grand is the probability higher that it can be fixed, meaning are there other ways besides congrete to fix a large crack, like packing solid clay and compacting it, if there is not a higher % chance of something working i can't affford to roll the dice since its a mimimum of a grand to come out and fix/take a look. I doubt the crack can be that big since the pond is relatively small but I guess until we dig it I don't know for sure

I would use concrete covered with clay, but also I think the concrete is kinda overkill, alot of the time or most of the time where I've seen it used concrete will not be totally water tight, I've only seen it used in some municipal waste water applications, it worked temporarily for leaks around piping that went through concrete to water but eventually leaked anyways.. Clay will give you a better seal. Unless there's a magic sealing concrete I'm unaware of..

Also you can't base your crack on pond size lol.. Another problem could be water coming up through the crack and pushing out what you put in. So there's lots of variables and if I was you I'd talk to a very eduucated pond dirt guy like Otto..