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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Docg has a post on here right now asking about a starter fly rod setup. I don't want to hijack his thread, so please bear with me while I ask some newbie questions. There might be someone who knows less than me about fly fishing, but I doubt it. In a reply to me last year, George was kind enough to express his faith in my ability to learn this art. Ever since then, I have been thinking about giving this a try. My question , and I know you're all going to laugh, is there a specific type of rod used to target panfish? Maybe a certain length, or action that works best? I have used ultralight tackle exclusively for years, so that's really my only basis for comparison. I actually don't have a clue where to start, or what I might need. I will definitely check out Temple Fork Outfitters, but I don't know what to look for. Does anyone have any suggestions?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 292
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Hey Sprkplug If you can stand up, bend your arm and then move your forearm from 2 oclock to 10 oclock you are flyfishing...maybe a little oversimplified but not by much. TFO is a good product and I remember a post on the thread you're referring to about the importance of Quality line!!! Remember in fly fishing you are casting the line... the fly is just along for the ride. As far as weight if you are SURE panfish are going to be your main if not only target a 4-5 wt rod will do fine and make you grin like a gopher when you catch a nice bull BG. Also the reel is of minimal importance in your case if it will hold some line thats good enough imo. Goood Luck and have fun
" EVERY DAY I'M AMAZED BY HOW MANY THINGS I DON'T KNOW AND HOW MUCH STUFF I DON'T UNDERSTAND"
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Joined: May 2010
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Joined: May 2010
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Anything from 6' to 9' from a 2wt to a 5wt will make a good blue gill rod. For large gills I'd go with a 9' 4wt. Most folks fish a shorter rod for panfish, but a 9'er will really help keep your backcast off of the ground. That is usually a big problem with beginning casters. A 6'6" 2wt may be loads of fun for gills, but they can be hard to cast for a beginner.
Practice makes bad habits. Learning from practice makes perfect.
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Lunker
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Hey Sprkplug If you can stand up, bend your arm and then move your forearm from 2 oclock to 10 oclock you are flyfishing...maybe a little oversimplified but not by much. TFO is a good product and I remember a post on the thread you're referring to about the importance of Quality line!!! Remember in fly fishing you are casting the line... the fly is just along for the ride. As far as weight if you are SURE panfish are going to be your main if not only target a 4-5 wt rod will do fine and make you grin like a gopher when you catch a nice bull BG. Also the reel is of minimal importance in your case if it will hold some line thats good enough imo. Goood Luck and have fun Sparkplug, FFF’s advice is right on! FFF, I have followed your interesting posts and now you have my attention on fly fishing. As an avid fly fisherman I’ve felt somewhat abandoned at times with mostly conventional gear fishermen - many thanks for your post. Your advice is right on – what you are saying is you need more that one fly rod and many quality lines to fall into the money pit, but for panfish and small bass your advice is right on!!! As you know, if you have big bass you have to go to heavy tackle to horse the hogs from heavy cover. If you have HSB they will put you onto the backing in a heart beat and they will fight ‘til they die unless landed quickly and released. For mostly panfish I agree with you 4-5 recommendation but for pond starter rig I would go with a 5-6. FWIW, I have a couple of spin rigs, 6-8 bait cating rods and 12-15 fly rigs from 4wt, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12wts and several of each – I’m a fly rod junkie. You are right on about TFO – they are good folks with affordable high quality equipment with a lifetime no-fault guarantee to boot. Welcome on board!!!! George Glazener
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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sprkplug, if you make it to the conference, I'm sure somebody will be there to give lessons. Short primer: http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?dir_id=758&subject=2141#flyline Fly casting is pretty easy. No need for all the fancy stuff, get a good rod and line. You can get away with using straight mono for a leader and tippet, although it might be slightly easier to cast with a tapered leader. For panfish, the reel is only used to hold the line, not to fight the fish. I'll second the longer rod, #4-#5 #5-#6 wt line/rod, floating fly line, and a few flies. You can practice on the lawn, and you'll have a blast. The only downside is that you need clear area behind you to make a cast (well, there are some exceptions, like a roll cast).
Last edited by esshup; 01/29/11 09:38 AM. Reason: Don't conterdict the expert!
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Hey G1 thanks for the comments I've been a long rod fan since the 70's. As far as "interesting" posts I can't help feeling like there maybe a little toungue in cheek flavor to that? As far as getting attention unfortunately I've also gotten some unwanted attention from the mods for posts that I thought were innocent enough...sometimes people aren't sure just how to take me. Most effective communication is more than just the words..to really know what someone is saying you need the tone-inflection-facial expressions-body language etc . For example I made a decent living for many years selling motorcycles, atvs and such. After spending weeks, months+ helping a married man find just the right unit to fill his needs and desires...they are sitting in my office with nothing left to do or say and the husband looks at the wife to get her approval(blessing-permission????) and then looks at me with that rediculous whipped look. "Well John heres what I need you to do for me....First please close your eyes...second please place your right hand between you legs...Now if you feel anything that even remotely feels like b**ls you'll write me a check!" 80% of the time they'd laugh and write me the check 20% would storm out in a huff.
Last edited by findfoolfight; 01/29/11 10:09 AM.
" EVERY DAY I'M AMAZED BY HOW MANY THINGS I DON'T KNOW AND HOW MUCH STUFF I DON'T UNDERSTAND"
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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That's one way to get them to sh.. or get off the pot! 
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Worked for me... some of my salesman tried to use it and the 80-20 rule was flipped on them. It's all about developing the right rapport with them...they already liked and trusted me and had heard me say so many off center things they weren't surprised or offended.
" EVERY DAY I'M AMAZED BY HOW MANY THINGS I DON'T KNOW AND HOW MUCH STUFF I DON'T UNDERSTAND"
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
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Thanks for the help guys! I'm off to town shortly, to examine some of this stuff up close. Not ready to buy yet, I will definitely support PB vendors when I decide to purchase. I don't think I've done a good job of properly expressing the depths of my ignorance.. what the heck is a tippet? What provides the "drag" when you're fighting the fish? What keeps all that loose line from getting tangled in briars, popping the heads of dandelions, and getting wrapped around my ankles? This is scary stuff for a guy who fishes with a 4 1/2' ultralight. An 8-9' rod? The possibilities for disaster seem endless. Perhaps a trip to the bookstore would be prudent? Any suggestions for a beginner's primer?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
Sparkplug, give me a mimute or so and I'll do my best to answer yuur questoins - before you head for town.
What the heck is a tippet?
Nothing but a fancy name for a leader – mostly trout fishing lingo.
You do need a “progressive” leader for certain species of fish – mainly a short larger diameter mono “butt section, connected to a smaller diameter mono leader to fly. No big deal – anyway your TFO combo comes with a tapered mono leader.
What provides the "drag" when you're fighting the fish?
A fly reel’s purpose for small fish is only to store the line – you “hand line” most times. Large species drag requirement again depends on species of fish.
A simple “clicker” drag on most trout panfish reel up to Cork/Teflon - stainless washers for large fsih.
Same engineering as on conventional spinning or casting reels.
What keeps all that loose line from getting tangled in briars, popping the heads of dandelions, and getting wrapped around my ankles?
Now that’s a problem … goat weed eats fly lines.
Roll casts solve that problem usually and a fancy “stripping basket” works to strip line into the “basket” … five gallon bucket works for me …
Any suggestions for a beginner's primer?
Google your questions –Youtube good place to start.
Best instructional DVD is “Lessons with Lefty” IMO
Google up Lefty Kreh You yube clips for starters.
Ask more questions after you return from town...
Good luck,
George
Last edited by george1; 01/29/11 11:24 AM.
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Will do!! Thanks, George!!
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 292
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 292 |
It's funny how people take certain concepts-phrases-ideas for granted. Very refreshing to see someone like sprkplug come at something with a completely blank slate. Reminds me of a lot of new things I've wanted to learn about in the past. I remember when a friend opened his rod locker during a tournament in th late 70's and whipped out an 8ft xtra heavy "flippin" stick and plunged the front of the boat deep into a hydrilla mat. All I could say was "what in the world are you gonna do ...kill some snakes" now I can flip a jig onto a dollar pad 15ft away in a drunken stupor.............NEVER QUIT LEARNING!!!!!
PS i've been sober for years...just making a point.
" EVERY DAY I'M AMAZED BY HOW MANY THINGS I DON'T KNOW AND HOW MUCH STUFF I DON'T UNDERSTAND"
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Joined: May 2010
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A spin fishing setup is pretty simple. You go from reel, to line, to lure. Fly fishing, on the other hand, goes from reel, to backing, to fly line, to a tapered leader, to tippit, to fly. For bluegill you can just forget about the tippit and backing. That will make things a little more simple for you. A straight 6lb leader is ok. For gills you'll want it around 6-7' long. I don't want to overload you with info all at one time, but there are some important "tips" about casting that will help you out. Let us know once you get your rod.
Practice makes bad habits. Learning from practice makes perfect.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 292
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Hey sprkplug...you back from the store yet? I was rereading your post from this morning and laughed out loud at "the possibilities for disaster seem endless" that's funny stuff I don't care who you are...but...you will find that the possibilities for absolute pleasure are well worth the rare disaster. Don't get me wrong I really enjoy many methods of fishing and they all have their place, in all modesty I could sit in the boat with KVD and powerfish heavy spinnerbaits with the trolling motor on high all day and enjoy it. On the other hand the older I get the more I enjoy and appreciate the finesse side of things. Sitting in a bellyboat and working a 4" wacky worm(with your ultralight not fly) thoroughly in an area no bigger than Condellos garage for an hour or quietly dropping a hair bug around the pads from pre-dawn till 9...good stuff....
Last edited by findfoolfight; 01/29/11 04:48 PM.
" EVERY DAY I'M AMAZED BY HOW MANY THINGS I DON'T KNOW AND HOW MUCH STUFF I DON'T UNDERSTAND"
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Okay, I got my hands on some gear today. I found a couple names I fish with now, namely St. Croix and Pflueger, so I tried them out. Pflueger had a 4 weight, that was 7.5' long that felt great, It reminded me of an ultralight spinning rod. They also had a 5 weight that was 8.5' long, that felt almost as good. The st. Croix was a 5/6, and it was also 8.5' long. I could definitely tell it had more "backbone?" to it. Can I assume that since the general recommendation was to stick with the 5/6 that it would be easier to learn on? What about length? I tend to gravitate to the shorter rods, probably because that's what I've always fished with. Is a longer rod easier to manage? The reels I looked at really didn't look all that different from one another. There must be some internal improvements that account for the price differential. I like the idea of a sinking fly, or lure. Since the line floats, does the length of the leader determine the ultimate depth the fly will sink to? From a fisherman who goes to great lengths to find line that's nearly invisible, the thought of flourescent green or orange floating line seems counter productive. I assume that's to make it more visual for the angler's benefit. I know it's a lot of questions to ask, I honestly have no clue. I'm going to spend some time online researching, so I'm bound to find some of the answers, and develop new questions. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate everyones' patience.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,534 Likes: 841 |
Not all fly lines float, but for your use, get a floating line. Longer IS better. Easier to cast with less effort "I think". Look at the combo's from TFO. They come ready to use, line, leader, backing, etc. already spooled. You can vary the depth by how long the leader is, and how long you let it drop down. Even with a floating fly line, you can fish a sinking fly. Since you can't use a bobber on a fly rod, you use the end of the line as a strike indicator, or you can attach one to your leader. More reading: http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choose-line-home.html I'm sure George will chime in on what line to get.
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Joined: May 2010
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Reel is not important. You just want one that is the same line wt as the rod. A pflueger medalist is hard to beat for very, very little $$$. A fly rod acts similar to a bow and arrow. The power comes from the rod (or bow) flexing. Take a look at this pic of me casting. See how much the rod is flexing?  That flexing is due to the momentum of the fly line (going backwards, over my right shoulder). You have to allow the line to straighten out behind you and flex the rod. If you try to shoot a bow at half draw, you lose a lot of power and accuracy. Same applies to casting a fly rod that isn't flexing (loading) correctly. You have to make sure you are giving the line time to load the rod before you can start the forward stroke. Keep this in mind when looking for a rod. It takes a lot of practice to get your timing down perfect. A longer rod keeps the line higher in the air. This means you can afford to be just a tad tardy on the forward stroke. BG are a lot more fun on a shorter, lighter rod. Only you can make the call on which rod to buy.
Practice makes bad habits. Learning from practice makes perfect.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
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Joined: May 2010
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Forgot to mention, floating line is the way to go. Sinking lines are harder to cast, harder to fish (you lose that "bobber" affect essup was talking about), and usually are reserved for specific situations. If your fly isn't getting down far enough use a longer leader.
Practice makes bad habits. Learning from practice makes perfect.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
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Okay, I got my hands on some gear today. I found a couple names I fish with now, namely St. Croix and Pflueger, so I tried them out. Pflueger had a 4 weight, that was 7.5' long that felt great, It reminded me of an ultralight spinning rod. They also had a 5 weight that was 8.5' long, that felt almost as good. The st. Croix was a 5/6, and it was also 8.5' long. I could definitely tell it had more "backbone?" to it. Can I assume that since the general recommendation was to stick with the 5/6 that it would be easier to learn on? What about length? I tend to gravitate to the shorter rods, probably because that's what I've always fished with. Is a longer rod easier to manage? The reels I looked at really didn't look all that different from one another. There must be some internal improvements that account for the price differential. I like the idea of a sinking fly, or lure. Since the line floats, does the length of the leader determine the ultimate depth the fly will sink to? From a fisherman who goes to great lengths to find line that's nearly invisible, the thought of flourescent green or orange floating line seems counter productive. I assume that's to make it more visual for the angler's benefit. I know it's a lot of questions to ask, I honestly have no clue. I'm going to spend some time online researching, so I'm bound to find some of the answers, and develop new questions. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate everyones' patience. Sparkplug, KEEP IT SIMPLE - Too many questions and too many answers that seem to contradict each other. For the time being, don't worry about rod lengths, sinking or floating lines, color of line all this stuff - that will come in time. If you want a fly rod to fish your pond buy a quality combo fly rig and learn some basic fly casting skill and go have fun. This subject can get complicated real quick - from itsy bitsy 2-3wt fly rods with itsy bitsy flies for itsy bitsy fish with floating lines to monster salty critters using 10-12 wt fly rods with big flies with lines from floaters to full sink lines. KISS - it's not all that complicated. Go for the TFO NXT combo - they have made all your decisions for you. We'll get into basic casting lessons later. ps: Fishinbub - nice loop! Save the double haul explanation 'til later ...
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
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You're right about that, George..
Every time I get interested in something new, I tend to totally immerse myself in it to the point of near fanaticism...
I'll try to slow down and not over-complicate it so much!!
Thanks again for your help!
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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