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#212300 - 04/10/10 10:27 AM Cleaning muck out of pond?
highlander3 Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
Hey all new here, recomendations on cleaning muck out of pond, I have 10000 watt generator. Was wondering about a large sump pump? Any ideas??
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#212301 - 04/10/10 10:40 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
blair5002 Offline
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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
Welcome to the forum highlander. How big is the pond? How deep? and how deep do you think the muck is? I tried to suck some out of my pond this winter with a 2 in pump and a long piece of pvc and I got about a yard out in an hour and a half. It was painful but maybe with the right pump or a water jet(like a hydro vac) on the end it might be easier. There is other guys on here that might give you some better pointers.
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#212303 - 04/10/10 10:46 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: blair5002]
ken Offline
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 350
Loc: ohio
Like Blair wrote , need more info on the pond. How muck are you saying?
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#212304 - 04/10/10 10:59 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6935
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Highlander3,

Welcome to the forum!! We're sure glad you found us.

Muck can be a tricky issue. First, is it orgacnic in nature from leaves, dead plants, etc? Or is the "muck" actually just soil from run-off?.

If it is in fact soil, som form mechanical removal is really your only option and a sump pump can help to accomplish that.

If it is organic in nature, you have many options available to you. Mechanical removal with the sump/trash pump or raking the muck to speed the decay, adding bacteria to speed decay, adding tilapia to consume the detritus, or any combination of these. Adding an aeration system will spped the decay also.

If you choose a mechanical method, use care as there will be a large volume of toxic gasses trapped in the muck and disturbing it could lead to a fish kill.




Edited by Rainman (04/10/10 11:00 AM)
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#212310 - 04/10/10 11:59 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: Rainman]
highlander3 Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
The pond is half to three quarters acre 30 years old, boarders woods so lot of leaves, but mostly dirt from run off. At least three to four feet of muck. When pond was built was ten to twelve feet deep now only seven feet deep. We have had cattle drinking out of pond for years so banks were in bad shape also were alot of the dirt came from. Had a backhoe last fall clean out around pond and fix banks back, and fenced off pond. has anyone used muckaway from the pond guy, supose to get rid of up to five inches of muck a year. What is my best option?? Thanks for the help..
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#212311 - 04/10/10 12:10 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
blair5002 Offline
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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
If alot of the muck is made up of dirt I would look at draining the pond and get a track hoe in to remove it.
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#212321 - 04/10/10 02:09 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: blair5002]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Only way you get that out is mechanical. I have a thread somewhere with some cool photos of a nasty muck job. Unless it is real soupy, and most of the time it ain't, you are looking at a backhoe and a loader. A trash pump normally just sucks the water out of it. And organic bacteria would be an uphill battle for decades. Drain the pond, backhoe, and sit back for another 30 years. Bear in mind when you refill, you may have numerous new issues to deal with.

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#212324 - 04/10/10 02:49 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
 Originally Posted By: highlander3
The pond is half to three quarters acre 30 years old, boarders woods so lot of leaves, but mostly dirt from run off. At least three to four feet of muck. When pond was built was ten to twelve feet deep now only seven feet deep. We have had cattle drinking out of pond for years so banks were in bad shape also were alot of the dirt came from. Had a backhoe last fall clean out around pond and fix banks back, and fenced off pond. has anyone used muckaway from the pond guy, supose to get rid of up to five inches of muck a year. What is my best option?? Thanks for the help..


Your best option is in my previous post. Actually I don't think you have muck, but mostly silt/soil. And Muckaway will do nothing to silt/soil. It can't breakdown and digest silt or soil, only enhance decomposition of organic matter. I would hate to see you spend a lot of funds on something that would be largely ineffective.

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#212395 - 04/11/10 09:22 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
SK63 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Midwest
If you don't want to drain/excavate, use aeration and bacteria. I am in a similar situation and the muck level is reducing, I just noticed today, my dogs are no longer coming out black and stinky when they get in the pond, I'm coming up on 2 years of owning this place and working on the pond, I would say I've lost at least 2 feet of muck probably more in spots. As far as which bacteria, this is anyone's guess, they all make the claim of some amount of inches per year but have not seen any hard data on bacteria use.

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#212410 - 04/11/10 01:00 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: SK63]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Aeration and bacteria have little or no impact on soil. And he clearly states it is soil and bank erosion. Trash pump that water out, get the backhoe digging. He already fixed the shore and fenced it from the cows tearing it up. Some people alos make a marsh or bog infront of thier ponds to trap soil runoff or screen it before it reaches the pond. Natural pond have features like this quite often, but not manmade. Probably best term would be a sediment trap.

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#213014 - 04/15/10 10:01 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: The Pond Frog]
highlander3 Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
Thanks guys I think I know what I need to do. I just hate the thought of draining my pond, I have just got my bass and catfish on track and growing. Does anyone know what that bucket scoop pulled by cables is called? I have seen them used several years ago, but not in a while. I wonder if it would be worth my time to check into that? Any ideas??
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#213030 - 04/15/10 11:42 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
DJT Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 343
Loc: SW Illinois
I think you are referring to a drag-line. Old technology that has been replaced with hydraulic track-hoe.
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#213031 - 04/15/10 11:43 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: The Pond Frog]
loretta Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 561
Loc: MI
 Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
Bear in mind when you refill, you may have numerous new issues to deal with.


I'll be doing this soon (drain and mechanical muck removal), can you give me some examples of the new issues that I'll be dealing with.
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#213034 - 04/15/10 11:58 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: DJT]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
 Originally Posted By: DJT
I think you are referring to a drag-line. Old technology that has been replaced with hydraulic track-hoe.


A drag line it is!

I dunno about them being replaced, they're still making new ones, and they are used in open pit coal mines. Track-hoes are limited by reach, and constantly dipping them in water washes the grease away from the pivot pins pretty quickly. Track-hoes or excavators DO work a lot better then the drag lines where you can see what you are doing, within reach, but when you really start reaching for stuff, the bucket capacity really goes down.
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#213100 - 04/16/10 06:35 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: esshup]
highlander3 Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
Just got wet and checked the pond, 2 to 3 feet of very soft and gushy mud. I do believe it can be sucked out fairly easy. I like to piddle at stuff anyway, I dont want to mess with my fish. Anyone got any ideas on what kind of pump I need, and also what are the collection bags called? Thanks guys when I get it clean am ordering sand for the beach pond....
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#213108 - 04/16/10 08:09 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
A trash pump may do it, but I'm wondering how much water you'd pump out of the pond at the same time. I have no idea what those bags are called, but my guess is that they're pretty expensive.

O.K. after a quick google search, they are called dewatering bags. Here's a place that sells them. It looks like they are a one-time use thing, slit open the bag to get the muck out.

dewatering bags

It looks like you'll have to call them for a price.


Edited by esshup (04/16/10 08:17 PM)
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#213118 - 04/16/10 09:21 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: esshup]
highlander3 Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
Thanks man I'll let the water run back into the pond, thru the bag. I'll check on trash pumps..
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#213127 - 04/16/10 11:09 PM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
loretta Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 561
Loc: MI
I'll be looking for your updates.
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#213140 - 04/17/10 09:20 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: loretta]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24027
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I'm curious to see what those bags are going for!
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#245495 - 01/21/11 12:09 AM Re: Cleaning muck out of pond? [Re: highlander3]
65Starfire Offline


Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Colrado
It sounds like the pond is in need of major work. Un-decomposed organic matter mixed in with soil underwater is going to be food for anaerobic organisms and the products of such metabolism includes methane along with other things that displace oxygen and can be toxic. Cleaning an old pond presents technical problems that can make it a bigger challenge than digging a new pond. Small draglines are fine, but a clam on a small crane is great if you have lots of slop and the stuff just fills in where you pulled the bucket out. I know a thing or two about using both. The dragline is best when the material has enough body to it that it feeds into the bucket and stays in the bucket. Of course, where is this machine going to sit and where is the material going to go when it does its thing? Clams might be better is some cases, but not many know much about them. They don't stir things around as much. The long reach backhoes today have replaced the small draglines of a cubic yard or less and more people today can get a job done with them. A friend of mine leaves his 305 Koehring parked and uses his JD 240 long reach for doing small retention ponds these days. The person doing the job may use a combination of draining part way and various digging strategies. Hire someone who knows how to do this work. Be mindful that when times are tough, a contractor will take any job even though they may not have the best equipment or experience to do it and make a big mes$. A mediocre dragline operator is also going to waste time.

Enough said about the equipment. If you get this thing cleaned out, you may want to consider building a trap where the water flows in so that the kind of excavator that any contractor would have can reach what is in there and you can keep it cleaned out routinely so less silt enters your pond. You also might want to have an arborist look at the trees around the pond to see which ones are really worth keeping. You donít want the leaves in there and too much shade is not good. Removing a few trees if the cattle have not already done so will do a number of things. First, it will give the contractor more options in which they can perform mechanical removal of material. Second, having more light will increase photosynthesis which is the base of a food chain in most ecosystems and provides oxygen. Of course there are a number of issues involved in this. Having the right kind of vegetation and not just a weed and/or algae problem is a concern. The fertility of the pond bottom to support desirable aquatic vegetation should be taken into account. You may have to buy some aquatic plants to get things started. I donít know what the fish are supposed to do during such mayhem or what you want to spend, but these are just some thoughts.

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