Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Controlling Crappie

Been awhile since I was on here, but I enjoy reading. The question I pose is very straight forward: Will introducing 2-3 flathead catfish have an positive effect in controlling crappie population in a 3 acre lake? I have a thriving bass and blue gill population along with some very large 6-8 lb bass at the top end. I have owned the 15 yr. old pond for 3 yrs. and at first, I caught some very nice 11-15 inch crappie in good numbers. Now, it seems that all I catch is 2-5 inch and an occasional 6-9. A friend just told me that flathead prefer to eat crappie and would be voracious in consuming the smaller ones. Does anyone care to offer an opinion?

I think flathead like moving water. I'm no pro but I'm sure some will chime in.

I think you stock Flathead(s) into a pond that small and you're asking for problems down the road. They will take over that BOW.

I don't think you will be happy with the results of stocking FH cats in your situation. HSB would be better. The reason you are seeing those results is because of the crappie.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post123793

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post15162

My friends suggestion is to put just one or two smaller ones in the pond and then remove them when they get large enough to consume larger fish. There is already a good population of channel cat in the pond. So, would hybrid stripped bass be a better alternative?

They are thinking of stocking Saugeye in one of the lakes around here to help with the Crappie.

Not sure where they did their study or if Saugeye are even available to the public.

Just thought I would post it for info.

Thanks

Most likely if you stock one or two flatheads they'll be next to impossible to catch. I like the idea of flathead in ponds they get huge. Downside they'll get baitshy, they'll out grow eating smaller fish very quickly. I can't see how 2-5 same sex would hurt anything.. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION..

IMO a big yes. I would not put FH cats in a pond -- read the link. Now if you have 5+ acres and your only goal is big FH cats then stock a lot of BG , shad , shiners etc and only a few FH cats. Fish for them with cut bait or live bait.

I would use HSB as well. I put 10 in my 6 acre pond and in a year I bet they gained 1.5-2 lbs. I was shocked when I finally caught one and they had grown as much as they did.

Flatheads will do just fine in a 3 acre pond. They do need rivers to spawn in, so them reproducing wouldn't be an issue. What will be an issue it those small flatheads will be beasts in 2-3 years that will be eating everything but the crappies you wanted them to eat.

Sounds like you already "controlled" them and have a good pond in hand. I doubt whether you will eliminate them, since they reproduce twice a year. Everything in pond management has tradeoffs. If you introduce a new species, they may affect your other pop. in negative ways. Frankly, I never quite understood why pond mgrs. would eliminate them, since they taste better than most other fish with the exception of trout. I guess it's because of the symbiotic relationship between BG and LMB. I have a seven acre balanced pond with LMB and large black crappie dominating. I won't "mess with the carburetor."

I wonder how big a HSB has to get before it can eat a 5" crappie. I'm always amazed at how small a HSB's mouth is even when they are over 20" long.

Ozark, your Crappie have likely way overpopulated your pond which is why they are rarely if ever suggested for small, <50-100 acre, ponds.

Hybrid Striped bass can take out a huge number of the smaller Crappie and your LMB will handle the larger ones. The other problem is that if the Crappie have over-populated and are stunting, your pond has reached it's full carrying capacity in terms of fish bio-mass. Adding the HSB will lessen the Crappie numbers, but you will need to use a rod and reel or other methods to heavily reduce your LMB numbers.

I would suggest adding at least 150 HSB in the 8-12 inch size class now, or this Spring. This Fall, begin removing all LMB under 15 inches that are caught.

If you like, and don't already have Channel Catfish, you may want to add 25-50 around 14" to the mix to help disrupt Crappie bedding and thus reduce the potential recruitment of Crappie. Also excellent table fare

Flathead catfish are voracious eaters and grow quickly. They will devastate the numbers of biggest size fish they can eat. Unless FH can be removed at will, they will soon be targeting and removing ALL of your big LMB as they grow.

Send me a PM if you want or need help getting some HSB.

Edit: At being 15 years old, many of your recent catches of big bass are from the original stocking. If the pond was not well managed prior to your ownership, I would not be at all surprised is there are large numbers of starving smaller bass in your pond already....they will need to be removed to help bring the correct balance of the predator and prey relationship.

Rainman....On my 14-17 acre pond that I have
fished about ten times since I bought the lot one year ago,
I always catch lots of stunted/starving black bass and
lots of stunted/starving catfish. I have only caught two
very healthy looking crappie. The lake/pond is about 6-7
years old. I wonder why the catfish and black bass have
over-populated, but the species known for over-populating,
the crappie, have not over-populated?

see pic below of my buddy holding a pretty thin catfish:

That's a thin CC!

Your pond is very predator heavy, and they are eating every available fish that they can fit in their mouths to survive.

Heck, even the Ducks seem tame!

Yes esshup to be honest I've never seen catfish so pencil thin.
They almost look deformed.
Below is another pic of a catfish my friend's son caught.
Look how skinny.

(btw...any ideas why the crappie haven't overpopulated?
I thought they were by far the worst as far as overpopulation)

Crappies, particularly black crappies are more adapt at eating invertebrates than are black bass. This means they can do well under the heavy bass predation. Their numbers are kept in check by the high numbers of bass feeding on them. The few crappies that remain have more invertebrates to eat and therefore do fairly well. At least that is my opinion on the subject...

Mr. Ozark Pond: If you can read all these opines and come up with a viable solution, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din.

Crappie reproduce in cycles that is one reason that makes them so hard to work with in a pond. Here is the link to the PB crappie discussion.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92447#Post92447

Well, lots of suggestions and thanks. I would like to clarify though: My pond seems to have a good population of LMB in a complete range of sizes from 24 inches all the way down to under 6 inches. These guys all look very healthy. I release anything over 19 inches, take around 20 each year in the 12-18 range and keep everything under 12. I don't really fish for bass, just crappie and I keep every crappie from a quarter inch to 15. I also have a good population of channel catfish which I estimate to be around 75-100 fish. They do reproduce and I have a few in the 10 lb range on down to 2-3 lbs and smaller. They are very fat in good condition. I take out 10-15 each year. Blue gill are very numerous, but the sizes are small. Every bass and catfish I catch are full of them. This is why I feel I need something to hold down the crappie. I would like to see the overall size of my crappie increase and i realize that this means eliminating numbers.
So, does this information help anyone offering an opinion on introducing a crappie predator? Thanks, I really appreciate the information.