Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations standrard chart age/length/weight for lmb

Does anyone (ewest)have this info, past post? Matt is working on age/growth for clients and thought it nice to have a standard growth to compare to. We can not find it from our sources. One doen in the SE would be much better than north. I would anticiapte substantial diff from regions. We have 11 inch bass that are 6 yrs old and 18 inch that are 3 yrs old. thanks

I would like to see it also. I have length/weight but not with age or latitude.

Dave it looks like our fish aging topic is becoming more popular.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002366 -- aging post

http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~secor/otolith-manual.html -- Otolith manual

Willis aging composite in PB mag.

Greg -- you already put your finger on the professional "problem." It's easy to have relative weight, where we just look at how much a fish weighs for its length. However, growth is another matter entirely, with geographic location the key.

The idea of “relative growth” has been kicked around for years. I think the first time I heard it was from Gary Novinger, when he was a research biologist with the Missouri Department of Conservation. The idea is simple: set a benchmark and compare your growth to that benchmark. However, the hang-up has been coming up with an idea of how to get people to agree on a benchmark. After all, there are tremendous latitudinal variations in growth, partially because of the growing season length.

Wayne Hubert (Hubert 1999) took the plunge, and put a paper out there for channel catfish, with a challenge to others to expand beyond this species. Quist et al. (2003) followed with a growth standard for walleyes). They provided the percentile distributions for mean lengths at age (ages 1-10; 5th through 95 percentiles). They also provided both a combined set of means when fish are not sexed, as well as separate means for males and for females. Obviously, there is a latitudinal gradient in walleye growth, and that is part of the analysis in their paper. For this relative growth index to be accepted, I believe that states will need to come up with their own benchmarks for what is satisfactory growth in their geographic locations. For example, Kansas walleye populations were near the 90th percentile in many growth assessments. In contrast, northern Manitoba populations may be growing at a satisfactory rate when they are at the 20th percentile level. Do you see my point? As long as people accept the standards in Quist et al. (2003) as our distribution-wide benchmark, then biologists can set their own values for their location.

Recently, Jackson and Hurley (2005) provided a growth summary for black and white crappies so relative growth could be assessed.

So, those are the only species for which there are range-wide standards are available. However, Mike Quist and his graduate student are close to finishing up standards for a bunch of other standards.

Hubert, W.A. 1999. Standards for assessment of age and growth data for channel catfish. Journal of Freshwater Ecology 14:313-326.

Jackson, J.J., and K.L. Hurley. 2005. Relative growth of white crappie and black crappie in the United States. Journal of Freshwater Ecology 20:461-467.

Quist, M.C., C.S.Guy, R.D. Schultz, and J.L. Stephen. 2003. Latitudinal comparisons of walleye growth in North America and factors influencing growth of walleyes in Kansas reservoirs. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 23:677-692.

Thanks Dave for that info. I need to check on those studies for info that might be used elsewhere (in the latitude of fishes area)

Greg we moved this thread from Q&O to hear so it would be easier to find.

thanks, but I swear someone had posted something to the effet of "a bass should be 9 inches at 2 years and 12 inches at 3 yrs, etc." I remember thinking the fish were growing very slowly in that study but seems it came out of NY? I maybe way off but it was here somewhere.

Matt just wants to compare our collected data to something other than data we have from other clients. It for soure makes the client understand bass harvest a little better when you tell him his 11 inch bass is 6 years old.

Greg I recall that post but it was just what someone thought based on their experience. Much like someone would say my LMB were 12 in. at one year. Anticodotal not based on collected data.

I look at a lot of studies and texts and have never seen collected data for what you are asking. I would remember that if it existed. It would fit in great with the latitudinal studies I have on BG and LMB.

Guys - Those data are available, you just have to dig and sort it out. The data are there, the chart just has to be created. Carlander Handbook of Freshwater Fishery Biology Vol 2 has mean lengths and weights (including hi-lo ranges) and the states where data were collected for LMB up to ages of 10, beyond that the number of locations of each age class dwindles to one - four records. I cannot testify to the accuracy of the aging techniques of each study.

Greg:

Bill's post made me think. For the south the TPW 16 year LMB study has that info for that area.

I haven't seen the studies but have considered the variables involved like forage, water quality, etc.. Lots of assumptions and ceterus parabus (SP?)

Remembering way back to my economics classes in college, I recall the Latin 'ceterus parabus', or all things being equal. Well I changed more than one thing, and variability is high, so I'm not sure. I guess "it all depends" -- right.

Let the gathering of info begin. Maybe we can make our own chart.

Length and weight with age of Fla. LMB in Texas ponds from the TPW 16 year study MDS 210.

Greg - sorry for the delay. I took Bill's advice and went back to Carlander's Handbook of Freshwater Fishery Biology, Volume 2. He has average length at age from different parts of the country. His means for AL, GA, LA, and TX are 166, 256, 315, 391, 437, 418 (yes it is lower; not a typo), 557, 622, 645, 706, and 910 mm (total length) at ages 1-11.

For other readers, Carlander also provided a North American set of averages: 118, 215, 287, 341, 389, 434, 463, 495, 510, 528, and 554 mm at ages 1-11.

Those southern fish sure can grow fast!

The old adage -- Live fast die young ! In this case grow fast shorter life span.

Leave a good looking corpse.

thanks dave and eric. we will use this to have something to comapre to.