Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations I want a catfish pond but have bluegill crowding

I don't know how to calculate it, but definately keep the dog tied up so it stays out of the pond until it's nutralized. They won't know it isn't good for them until it's too late.

Well, I bought a 50 pound bag of hydrated lime and went down to the pond yesterday to restart the siphon so there would be less water in it today when I applied it (there's a spring fed stream that runs into it all the time. There were dead BG floating on half the water so I wondered if I didn't need to do it. But I paddled around a little and saw that there were still lots of BG alive. So this morning I went and started moving around the puddle in the jon boat shoveling the lime in. The fish were definitely agitated by it. Some were jumping out of the water trying to get away. I went back about 6 hours later and there were lots of dead BG. I didn't see any dead gambusia minnows though. And there were quite a few BG that had congregated where the fresh water comes into the puddle. I netted all that I could out from that spot hoping that I got them all. I'm sure some escaped though. Do you all think I need to apply more lime until the gambusia die, which would guarantee that all the BG die? Can a handful of small BG multiply and take over a pond? Also, what pH should I be looking for to untie the dog?

OK, one more question. There are now hundreds (maybe 1000s) of 2-4" dead BG on the surface of the pond/puddle. I spent a couple of hours yesterday scooping them up into five gallon buckets and then burying them. I did that with two bucketfulls. I scooped up a fair amount of muck too because most of the fish are near the shore and it was impossible to get the fish without getting the muck. So I don't know how much of my two bucketfulls was actually fish. Anyway, there are still lots of dead fish. My question is, after killing the fish off like this do you normally net them out and dispose of them? Or do you let nature run its course?

Interesting situation, Nathan, and I don't know the answer but am sure you'll get some input from others. Any chance of posting a pic? I'm curious to see what you've got there.

Here's a link to a picasa site with several pics of the pond. http://picasaweb.google.com/nrp0450/CatfishPond# It doesn't have any since I applied the lime. I'll try to post some of those later today.

Thanks, Nathan. I think I've seen these (if you didn't post this link before, someone else has a pond that looks strikingly like yours!) already. Looks like neat potential once you redo it. I'm just really interested in seeing the results of your fish kill - probably kind of morbid, but I've often wondered about that sort of thing and how it would look at my ponds. You just kind of always wonder exactly how many fish are under the surface (I know, I know, one would hope ALL of them are under the surface! ) and what you're going through right now sure seems like it would answer that question. Sorry to ramble, but looking forward to your pics.

Yeah, I posted some of those pics with a question about a hole in my clay liner. Still waiting for an answer on that. I just walked up from the pond with some new pics. (I love the fact that I can just take a few steps off my back porch and be at the pond.) It's kind of hard to capture the fish kill with pictures since all the fish are under 4". They just show up as white blobs on the picture. I did get one pic zooming in but that misses the magnitude of it. Anyway, here are the pics:

All the little white specs you see on the surface of the water are fish:

For this pic I zoomed in to the group of floaters in the lower left side of the pond in the above picture.

You can't see the fish clearly in this pic but it shows that they are everywhere:

I've been trapping the fish in this pond almost non-stop for two months and also siphoning the water out so I don't know if the concentration of fish is representative of what it looked like before I started or not. Plus I already scooped out the two bucketfulls (plus muck) yesterday.

Wow. That's a lot of fish alright! Especially in light of the previous live removal and dead removal efforts you've made. Good luck on getting it finished up so you can move on to the next phase.

And I know what you mean about how great it is to just walk out and be at the pond. I can't wait to make that reality for myself, too. It's already exciting knowing ours are only about 15 minutes away. I'll probably never get anything revenue-generating done once we move!

I forgot to post about this earlier. So I'll do it now. As the siphon brought the pond level lower and lower we started to see a catfish trolling the surface. It looked like it was eating algae. I tried catching it with bait and with a bait casting net. I threw the net right over it once and felt it in the net but it wasn't there when I pulled it up. When the pond level was down to about a foot we found it dead. Then later in the day we found the other one. Here's a pic of the first one:

This guy only had one eye....just skin over the spot where the other eye should have been.

The last time the pond was stocked was 20 or so years ago, a little bit before my grandfather died. Do CC live that long? Or would these be remants of a one-time spawn a while back? Also, would this mean I DIDN'T have a DO-crash-induced fish kill?

I'm letting the pond refill now, assuming that I killed all the BG with lime. We'll see if that's true. I would still like to know if it's normal for BG to die and Gambusia minnows to survive a lime treatment like that. Does anyone know?

Can you please come and get some of my catfish and take them home! I am catfish crowded.

James, I've seen some of your posts about catfish around the forum. How did you get so catfish crowded? Has you trap worked?

My catfish reproduce and start to show up at the feeders at about six inches. I have five feeders and the feeder closest to the dry creek has most of the small catfish which make me think the catfish are somehow spawning around that area of the pond. When your feeders go off and most of the fish at the feeders are catfish its time to start removing them. I am going to place the trap this weekend. I have been out of town a lot lately.

Nathon Payne - Have you considered putting some hardware structure mid-lake for fish attractors. Throughout the year as water levels change the little fish will migrate towards the structure and the bigger fish will eat them. In my 1.5 acre pond it seems to help balance the population variety of fish sizes.

One other comment since I couldn't tell from the surrounding tree cover. Make sure there are enough cross lake breezes available to the pond for aeration if none provided otherwise fish will stress even if feed - probably more. Too thick a tree stand can cut off your air movement.

Nice pond.

Here is a picture of the net with a few fish in it. We caught turtles, bullheads,bluegill,crappie and bass but not a single channel catfish. I need to learn how to set the net better possibly in deeper water.

James, did you get any wings with the net? Where'd ya get it?

Wow, that is a big net. Hopefully you can figure out how to catch CCs in it.

I'm thoroughly confused now about structure in a CC-only pond. If I'm going to feed them do I need any structure?

I've wondered if the trees around the pond are causing low DO levels. I've looked into getting an aeration system going and read lots of threads on it but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I was glad to see that there were two big CCs in the pond after all these years because that meant (I think) that I never had a fish kill. At least not a total fish kill. I get that aeration makes for a healthier pond and healthier fish, but is there a way to know if that's my limiting factor for growing CCs?

Well, I got my 4-6" CCs about two weeks ago. I ordered 150 of them but we counted 212 when we put them in. Here are some pics from the big day.

We got the fish from Tyler Fish Farm.


They told us to cut the fish bag and empty it into a bucket. And then add water from the pond enough to double the amount of water. Then let them sit for 3 minutes before putting them into the pond.




I've been feeding them two or three times a day since they went in. Or trying to feed them, I should say. I've only actually seen the baby CCs eat once. The gambusia minnows love the feed though. I was hoping the CCs would be eating better by now. Even when we had nice warm weather last week they weren't coming. I've feed in the same spot every time and even have a feeding ring up now. I've also tried walking around the pond throwing a little feed out all around it. But have had no luck. Do I need to just wait until the water warms up next spring? Or can I expect them to start eating this winter?

Also, I've seen a few BG (I'm wondering now if they're GSF and not BG though) that must have survived the hydrated lime treatment. I should have dammed up the inflow. I had found several of them hanging out right where the spring-fed stream came into the puddle (maybe 5 gallons per minute). I thought I netted them all out but apparently not. I've removed about 30 of them in the last two weeks. If they take over the pond again at least I know what to do next time.

Any thoughts on why my CCs aren't feeding?

They are probably just hanging out if they do not take to it this fall I am sure you will see plenty next year.

Did you get any albino cats?

I really never noticed mine come up either, now I think they may be the only fish feeding.

That is the same size I put in as well a year ago so I will be curious to see how well they do in a years time since you already started feeding yours.

What size is your pond again?

It seems like you got a nice count anyway.

What size is your pond again?

It seems like you got a nice count anyway.

Dear Pond Boss:

I have a 1.75 acre deep Georgia mountain pond with significant fresh water supply, i.e. springs and sufficient stream. Deepest part runs through center, 20 foot depth.

Overhanging wooded pond. I'd like catfish. I have been working on this pond with improvements for the past two years. New overflow, etc. Ready for stocking.

Someone, please give me advice, without hours of personal research. I trust Pond Boss and it's readers.

Lee Burch

Nathan:

What's your water temps near the surface? If it's getting in the mid 60's then the CC won't feed much on floating pellets, but they might be scarfing up pellets that sunk to the bottom or are sinking. CC are warmwater fish and really slow down on feeding in cooler water.

Lee, you probably will get more visibility if you start your own thread with the question that you asked.

In any case, I'll toss out another question for you here, and you can incorporate it into your previous question.

What are the other fish in the pond, and what size are they? I'll bet that you can have CC in the pond, but let us know what other fish are in the pond now.

Nathan, at this point, I expect the CC's are getting acclimated to their new surroundings. They have never lived anyplace that they couldn't see the other side of. For the first couple of days, you can usually see them circling the pond and coming to the top and looking around. It might be a little late this year to get them acclimated but I expect, if you continue, you will see a couple of them coming up.

Lee, the first step should involve checking the water quality. Find out what the PH and alkilinity levels are. Take action as needed(or not). Streams and springs can be problematical. Is this a flow through pond?

What will the cats eat? What fish will the stream add? As Esshup asked, what kind of fish are currently there? If the stream has added some 12 inch bass, your CC will have to be at least 6 inches at stocking time.

At this point, you really need to tell us where you are before we can tell you how to accomplish your objective.

BTW, I like catfish ponds.

I just took the surface temperature and it was 61 at the spot where I've been feeding. So that must be it. I know of other people who live around here who have gotten their CCs to take floating feed all through the winter. Though not nearly as vigorously of course, and they started them feeding in warm weather. I'll keep trying and see what happens.

The pond will be 1/2 acre when it's full. It's still filling and is maybe 60-70% that size right now. It's been filling up pretty quickly though. By early next year I think it will be full.

I didn't see any albino cats.

Thanks for response. Currently, I've just closed drain. There are no fish in pond, just frogs and tadpoles and one mean snake that bit me in August.

Water has only been at pool for 1 month.

I'm open for your ideas on stocking. Essentially, Catfish is my preference for consumption.

Lee

Flow through? Yes. A Damn with a spill way overflow. As far as PH, how expensive to keep PH in check. I already have that assignment on our swimming pool.

I would feed via a feeder. What recommendations on stocking. This same pond has been a very successful all round fishing pond.

Thanks again for advice.

Lee