Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Guadalupe Bass (Micropterus treculii)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/gdb/

I have been invited to participate in a men’s cancer retreat this coming Sunday thru Tuesday at a ranch near Boerne in the Texas Hill Country, fronting on the Guadalupe River. It is a resort ranch with wild game, upland bird shooting and private access trophy trout waters.

The primary purpose of this retreat is a respite from day-to-day concerns of patients to gain a fresh outlook on their fight with cancer.
Private discussions are provided for encouragement and a new network
of friends and support. Cancer information and resources are provided to better manage their disease, and a renewed hope as they confront the challenges of cancer.

I have previously declined invitations to attend but now that I am a double dipper and can assist in fly casting and fly tyin’ instruction, I don’t have an excuse.

Trout are not my favored species even tho I have had exceptional opportunities, I have NEVER caught a Guadalupe Bass.
It will be my primary target.

I am somewhat apprehensive about the cancer sessions but looking forward to the fishing - and perhaps help some of the cancer patients by sharing my experience.

George

My wife's Grandmother passed away two hours ago from brain / lung cancer. What you are doing is very important George. You will do great!

George: You will be an inspiration to every one there.

Bing

Gflo, condolences to the family.

Gflo, your family is in our prayers, just as George still is.

I'm glad to hear you accepted the invitation to participate George!

Hey, Gflo, really sorry to hear the sad news. Prayers coming from WV.

George, congrats on the opportunity. Do us, and the cause, proud!

Good luck catching one of those bass George. They seem to have a very pretty coloration from photos I have seen. Please posts some pics if you catch one!

George, I hope you can catch one or two of these interesting bass. In the past I have suggested that they be tried in southern ponds as a substitute for SMB. Since they don't grow large, they could be useful in small ponds with smaller forage fish or where one wants or needs a smaller top end predator (max 3 lb 11oz). These bass are noted for their jumping and leaping acrobatics. Ralph Manns researched these bass for his masters thesis at SW Texas State Univ. He found they adept well to reservoir life and I assume they would also thrive in ponds with adequate forage fish.

Gflo, my condolences to you and your family.

George, I'll bet that you going will do a lot more good for the other people there than you realize.

Gflo, our sincerest condolences and prayers.
George

Bill, I'll try to get some local information when I'n I'm down there.
Very interesting subject to me as well.

Life History
Guadalupe bass do not grow to large size because they are adapted to small streams. However, a propensity for fast flowing water, and their ability to utilize fast water to their advantage when hooked, make them a desirable sport fish species. Their preference for small streams enhances their allure to anglers because of the natural setting where small streams are usually found. Specimens in excess of 3.5 pounds have been landed.

Both males and females become sexually mature when they are one year old. Guadalupe bass spawning begins as early as March and continues through May and June. A secondary spawn is possible in late summer or early fall. Like all other black bass, Guadalupe bass build gravel nests for spawning, preferably in shallow water. As with spotted bass and smallmouth bass, males tend to build nests in areas with higher flow rates than largemouth bass. When a male has successfully attracted a female to the nest she may lay 400 to over 9,000 eggs. The female is then chased away and the male stands guard over the incubating eggs. After hatching, fry feed on invertebrates and switch to piscivory as they grow older. Very young fish and older adults tend to include more invertebrates in their diet than do largemouth bass. Juveniles and younger adults tend to include more fish in their diets than do largemouth bass.

Cody Postscript: The lower fecundity of the females suggests that these bass might not be as prone to overpopulate as largemouths which is another reason they may be desirable for use as the sole predator in ponds or even in combination with HSB. They might work well in combination with GSH and redears or use with HBG.

Bill, I am getting some Guadalupe River veteran’s responses from my fly-fishing forums which I will pass along. I appreciate your shared interest.
George

I like the horizontal stripe on the lower part of the fish.

Not to get all mushy on you George but don't discount the good that you can provide. Hope and inspiration go along way in the healing process.

Ricki and I hope you have lots of fun. Try to remember to take photos and post them when you are back.

(PS, I had never heard of a Guadalupe Bass before you mentioned it).

(PPS, thanks for the additional info Commander Cody).

Bill, this response:
"Absolutely. Keep in mind that Guad Bass are also nest guarding spawners. While their habitat preference tends to include higher velocity habitats, the reproductive strategy is very similar to the other black basses, nest spawning over a variety of substrates (gravel, vegetation, etc.) Case in point: As a Graduate TA, I took my Ichthyology class to the Freshwater Fisheries Center in Athens for a field trip. The Sharelunker brood stock were actively spawning over door mats! The coarse material type of door mats that you would scrape the mud off or your boots. I know it may sound funny, but it works rather well in the hatchery environment.

Given the proper habitat, there is no reason a Guad Bass wouldn't successfully spawn in small ponds, but why would one prefer Guad Bass over a Florida LMB strain that grows bigger and faster? I'm all for the restoration and propogation of native fish, but if the goal of the pond manager is angler success, I would opt for the Florida LMB."

Another response:
"my uncle has a tank with a breeding population...yes"

Bigger bass is not always better. These bass might be more angler friendly and easier to catch than FL strain. They are definately more acrobatic leapers similar to SMB or even more so than SMB. Less fecundity could be beneficial in unique habitats where they would not over eat the food source as fast thus smaller types of forage species would have better long term survival and propogation. Sometimes just having a unique and different species is enough for some pondowners.

Thanks Bill for a good exchange between two very knowledgeable fish guys. The idea of stocking Guadalupe Bass in a small pond intrigues me but I have no intention of eliminating certified pure Florida LMB from our small brood pond.
Now if I had a new small pond for experimenting that would be another matter.

Now to try to catch one of those beauties!

Agreed. Northern Pond, stock Northern strain LMB. In regards to fecundity, Guads produced much less eggs per spawn than do LMB, however, Guads are sexually mature much earlier in life than LMB which could also lead to overpopulation.

Regardless, if a pond is not properly managed (i.e. selective harvest of bass) the trophic structure can get skewed rather quickly. We've all observed stunted bass populations in ponds. Believe it or not, it's nearly impossible to convince folks to catch and keep a few bass every now and then. The "every bass released is going to be a lunker" mentality more often than not leads to a pond full of 12-16" bass with no real "trophy" bass.

I worked on a stunted pond this summer and the Ranch Foreman has for years tried to implement a selective harvest program for the bass. None of the guests/clients will keep bass. Consequently, the pond was electrofished and all bass 10-16" went in the cooler. We'll go back this summer and review the catch records to ensure a the pond is exhibiting a more balanced population.

Essentially a pond manager's goal is a balanced population of forage and game fish. Easier said than done, right?

George - Very good points. If these bass were able to tolerate colder climate, I would use them in ponds near me that are primarily for swimming. Texas pond owners that want mostly a swimming pond and no biting nibbling sunfish may find these bass useful combinded with minnows or some smaller, or more narrow bodied forage fish and or crayfish. The Guadalupe bass might be the 'smallmouth of the south'.

Now we just need to talk Todd Overton into producing them in his hatchery! Can we get a market going?

Those bass would probably do well with Todd's lake chubsuckers as forage.

Lots of untapped species out there... Would be fun to have lots of ponds to experiment with.

Hey Guys, pardon the late report on the retreat but to tell you the truth it just about did me in! I knew I was pushing it physically but the intense sessions were exhausting for me by constraining emotions that I don’t handle well.

It was a Bitter/Sweet experience for me but memories that will last forever.
I hope I was able to contribute something to our “Band of Brothers”!
Fishing was lousy but that wasn’t the primary purpose.

Too early for trout stocking – a couple of small Guadalupe Bass caught but bad photos.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to ALL!