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#236590 - 10/03/10 06:04 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Rainman Offline
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Tilapia are allowed by permit only in very specific areas now. The law was changed around 5/2010. Posession of any tilapia species without prior approval and an $800+ permit is illegal.
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#236591 - 10/03/10 06:05 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Rainman]
Rainman Offline
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The irony is that Southern california is the only are they will even consider approving a permit.
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#236606 - 10/03/10 08:04 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Rainman]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Tilapia are allowed by permit only in very specific areas now. The law was changed around 5/2010. Posession of any tilapia species without prior approval and an $800+ permit is illegal.


800 dollar permit!!! shocked

Oh that's right they need to pay those high paid city administrators. whistle


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/03/10 09:25 PM)
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#236618 - 10/03/10 09:09 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Rainman Offline
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You also have to pay for the inspection and the milage for the inspectors drive!

I no longer ship to California, but oddly, my shipments to western Nevada and Arizona went up considerably shortly after the law went into effect. I have NO idea why... wink


Edited by Rainman (10/03/10 09:14 PM)
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#236619 - 10/03/10 09:14 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Rainman]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rainman


I no longer ship to California, but oddly, my shipments to western Nevada and Arizona went up considerably shortly after the law went into effect. I have NO idea why... wink


laugh laugh laugh

Well my first sale of pond raised live fish went off without a hitch. (Inside Indiana so no VHS testing required).

Harry and Scot (Esshup) picked up 200 bgs and 200 yp today. Bluegills were 3 to 4 inches and very circular due to those Condello genes, and Harry wanted perch that were not feed trained so he got 3 inch yellow perch.

The ones in the perch production pond that took to the feed or are cannibals are 5 to 7 inches. Unfortunately not enough of them to sell at that size this year as there were only about 200 of the largest ones, which I will keep for myself for the RAS this winter. A few thousand of the 3 inchers though. I'm going to adding another light and feeder next year to the other end of the perch production pond to hopefully get more of them on feed.

The 3 inchers will go int the second RAS tank with 3 to 4 inch BG's and I'm pretty confident I can feed train them and get them several inches larger by spring.




Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/03/10 09:24 PM)
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#236620 - 10/03/10 09:17 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: JKB]
Rainman Offline
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Originally Posted By: JKB
Why did they ban Tilapia in CA?


Who knows! Why does California do most of what it does????
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#236648 - 10/04/10 09:13 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Rainman]
esshup Offline
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Cecil:

The transport came off without a hitch. Some splashing of water, but that's the reason for the trailer. (We transported the fish in 120 qt. coolers.)

I need to pick up 1 or 2 of those baitwell aerators and wire them like you did. Good idea!
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#236663 - 10/04/10 11:03 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: esshup]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Tilapia are allowed by permit only in very specific areas now. The law was changed around 5/2010. Posession of any tilapia species without prior approval and an $800+ permit is illegal.

Originally Posted By: Rainman
The irony is that Southern california is the only are they will even consider approving a permit.

The new regulations are insane. They have put many California fish supplies out of business or very reluctant to do business. The fish supplier that DIED and I used a few years back is one of these individuals. He won't sell to private pond owners anymore. The regulations are very arbitrary. One example: The new regulations divided El Dorado county using a north/south highway. Owning property east of the highway causes you to be subject to a myriad of new stocking regulations. Owning property west of the highway exempts you from this. BTW this "highway" is a two lane road. So you can have two ponds across the road from one another that will have entirely different stocking regulations that effect them.

Absolutely crazy.

In Southern California (where Tilapia could winter over) it is possible (after jumping through the required hoops) to stock Tilapia. Why? Probably because there are several large Tilapia fish farms already in Southern California and Tilapia have existed in the Salton Sea for decades.


Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
800 dollar permit!!!
Oh that's right they need to pay those high paid city administrators. whistle

The permit in most places (after inspection, etc, etc) is $800.
In Bell, California however the permit is $15,400. laugh



Originally Posted By: Rainman
Who knows! Why does California do most of what it does????

Even those of us that live in California don't know why the state does what it does.
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#236901 - 10/06/10 09:02 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: jeffhasapond]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley
That's crazy!

I think I was ripped off and that my fish are actually bluegills.

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#238525 - 10/19/10 08:55 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
JKB Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve
That's crazy!

I think I was ripped off and that my fish are actually bluegills.


Please tell us more, and why do you think they are BG!

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#238544 - 10/19/10 09:47 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: JKB]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Yes tell us more.

I'll like to have some those bluegills that can handle your ammonia levels and PH! grin


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/19/10 09:52 PM)
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#238585 - 10/20/10 08:54 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley


Sorry I don't remember why.

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#238826 - 10/21/10 01:15 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
Magnolia Rick Offline
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Registered: 02/04/10
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Loc: texas



I stocked them back in I think April. They get feed twice aday. And love crickets. On a light reel and 4lb test it a nice little fight. They were 6 to 8" long are small when stocked.


Edited by Magnolia Rick (10/21/10 01:16 PM)
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#238918 - 10/22/10 10:50 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Magnolia Rick]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley

I would like to see an actual copy of the laws before I make another attempt to identify my fish.

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#238922 - 10/22/10 12:54 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
Gflo Offline
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I am assuming that you think your fish are bluegill because you would like others on the message board to believe they are bluegill if in fact you had inadvertently acquired tilapia illegally?

Based on the information in this thread, had your fish been bluegill or morphologically similar looking sunfish, they more than likely all would have died due to swings / fluctuation of water parameters.

It is very hard to say what is legal or illegal in California due to regulations that apply only to certain regions, or specific strains / species of fish etc.

http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/Special_topics/tilapia.html

I would use information from that link to get in touch with your regional DFG office and see how they interpret the law as far as tilapia culture goes. They should be able to tell you what laws apply to you in your region. Looking at a copy of the laws probably won't help you because the interpretation of those laws is what counts, and for that you will have to speak with the department of fish and game directly.
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#238934 - 10/22/10 03:04 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve

I would like to see an actual copy of the laws before I make another attempt to identify my fish.


Here is a link to the stocking regulations. Look mid page under the term "Private Stocking" and more specifically under "Regulations Governing Private Stocking of Aquatic Plants and Animals -Non-Commercial (Informational Leaflet No. 6 .pdf)"
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
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#238939 - 10/22/10 04:49 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Gflo]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gflo
I am assuming that you think your fish are bluegill because you would like others on the message board to believe they are bluegill if in fact you had inadvertently acquired tilapia illegally?

Based on the information in this thread, had your fish been bluegill or morphologically similar looking sunfish, they more than likely all would have died due to swings / fluctuation of water parameters.

It is very hard to say what is legal or illegal in California due to regulations that apply only to certain regions, or specific strains / species of fish etc.

http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/Special_topics/tilapia.html

I would use information from that link to get in touch with your regional DFG office and see how they interpret the law as far as tilapia culture goes. They should be able to tell you what laws apply to you in your region. Looking at a copy of the laws probably won't help you because the interpretation of those laws is what counts, and for that you will have to speak with the department of fish and game directly.



Gotta love bureaucracy and government agencies that have to regulate everything! If these people had a clue on how hard it is to run your own business! I deal with it every year with my fish! frown
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#238998 - 10/23/10 11:47 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: jeffhasapond]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley
Hmm... These are fish and game regulations. My fish are pets. Unless I pull a permit or invite them, what gives them jurisdiction over my back yard and my pets? It's not like one of their deer wandered in or even one of their fish and I'm not on their property so how do fish and game rules apply to me and my pets?

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#239002 - 10/23/10 12:02 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Hmm... These are fish and game regulations. My fish are pets. Unless I pull a permit or invite them, what gives them jurisdiction over my back yard and my pets? It's not like one of their deer wandered in or even one of their fish and I'm not on their property so how do fish and game rules apply to me and my pets?


I didn't read the link Jeff provided but there should be something applicable to aquaculture. Perhaps in the link gflo provided? BTW the government does have jurisdiction over our pets. There are all kinds of laws on the books regarding pets and restrictions for certain species.

I know haulers and fish farmers that go under the radar or feign ignorance and get away with it. On the other hand, I know of a few people that were caught that were fined dearly. It's entirely possible you'll never get approached with a backyard operation but then again...

As much a pain as it is, I get all the required permits and follow the laws even the ones that are so utterly stupid they defy explanation. I just couldn't sleep at night knowing that one knock on the door could shut me down if I was doing something I shouldn't. But my operation went further than a backyard hobby several years ago and hopefully is destined to continue to expand.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/23/10 12:06 PM)
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#239003 - 10/23/10 12:19 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Gflo Offline
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Registered: 06/11/09
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Loc: CA
Technically they are not pets unless they are kept in a closed system. Closed meaning that rainwater cannot land in the system among a few other metrics.

The department of fish and game have no jurisdiction or boundaries in California. They can just walk into your backyard and do whatever they please. They are the only officers in the state that can arrest or write you a ticket for anything. They can write you a ticket for fishing without a license, or fine you for parking more than 16 inches away from a curb.

It doesn't matter if they are stationed in northwest Cali. They can drive all the way down south and write someone a ticket in San Diego.




Edited by Gflo (10/23/10 12:30 PM)
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#239005 - 10/23/10 12:31 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Gflo]
JKB Offline
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I briefly read the link that JHAP posted and noticed the word Aquarium mentioned several times. With this dang cold I have right now, it's hard to concentrate.

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#239011 - 10/23/10 01:16 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: JKB]
esshup Offline
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Cecil, with the taxidermy business that you're in, I assume you might be further up on the radar list as well.
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#239019 - 10/23/10 01:39 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Hmm... These are fish and game regulations. My fish are pets. Unless I pull a permit or invite them, what gives them jurisdiction over my back yard and my pets? It's not like one of their deer wandered in or even one of their fish and I'm not on their property so how do fish and game rules apply to me and my pets?


Read the name of the regulation:
REGULATIONS GOVERNING PRIVATE STOCKING OF
AQUATIC PLANTS AND ANIMALS (NONCOMMERCIAL)

Do what ever you want, you should just know the law.

I have read these regulations over and over my interpretation is this:

IF your property is located in certain areas (see page 3 of the regulations sited above) and IF you only want to stock one of the following fish (white catfish, channel catfish, blue catfish, largemouth bass, bluegill, Sacramento perch, rainbow trout, redear sunfish) then you DO NOT have to get a permit.

If your pond is not located in the geographic areas detailed in the brochure AND/OR if you want to stock ANY fish other than the eight species listed above then you must apply for a "Private Stocking Permit" (Form FG 749).

Note: this permit only lets you stock fish in private waters, this permit does not allow you to sell aquatic plants or animals.

This post is not intended to be construed as legal advice. Read the regulations yourself and draw your own conclusions.


_________________________
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~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#239023 - 10/23/10 01:48 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: JKB]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Originally Posted By: JKB
I briefly read the link that JHAP posted and noticed the word Aquarium mentioned several times. With this dang cold I have right now, it's hard to concentrate.


The word aquarium is only mentioned once in the document on page 9.

Stop doing NyQuil shooters. laugh
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#239025 - 10/23/10 01:55 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: esshup]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Cecil, with the taxidermy business that you're in, I assume you might be further up on the radar list as well.


Even though there was a "sting" a few years ago, where every taxidermist in the state had his shop checked by out of county C.O's in one day, typically they aren't interested in someone that does just fish. For some reason the fish just don't excite them.

What's really interesting is at one time they didn't need a search warrant to enter a taxidermy shop and they still want you to think that is the case, or they aren't aware there's been a change in the law. There was court case in PA I believe called Sprinkle vs. Spangler where a C.O. had it out for a taxidermist and was showing up at all hours repeatedly just because he could. The case sided with the taxidermist and is supposed to be a precedent case where they can no longer barge in without a search warrant.

I know taxidermists that won't let them in without a warrant, but I let them in as they can still make life tough on you, or call in the feds as they did with a friend that told them to go "f' themselves. shocked laugh Yeah this friend has some cahoonas on him! It also made his lawyer some good change.

I've never had a problem with Indiana's C.O's. All have been polite and professional with me. I just wish they weren't so understaffed.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/23/10 01:59 PM)
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