Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Lou Schaufele, JCWDUCK, !#!#!#!, Matt1414, BobMoff
15656 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15656 Members
36 Forums
36030 Topics
490217 Posts

Max Online: 1210 @ 08/23/18 11:01 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24029
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19537
Dave Davidson1 13565
Bill Cody 12471
Who's Online
6 registered (snrub, anthropic, Pat Williamson, FireIsHot, Shorty, JKS3613), 142 Guests and 454 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#238196 - 10/17/10 12:19 AM Dead Deer
tying deacon Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
A doe which was apparently wounded by a poor out of season shot wandered on to my property and died in a shallow corner of my four acre pond. Seems to have been there about two weeks. Stupid question but would you pull it out or let it decompose. How urgent from the standpoint of the health of the fish is it to remove this stinking corpse?

Top
#238197 - 10/17/10 03:32 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: tying deacon]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3083
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
just curious...is the corpse floating? mostly in water or mostly out of the water? do you have catfish? is decom pretty far along? btw...welcome to the forum.
_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


Top
#238204 - 10/17/10 08:48 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Zep]
tying deacon Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
Not free floating. Against the bank. No catfish. Decomp. about two weeks based upon when first noticed...was not there three weeks ago.

Top
#238215 - 10/17/10 12:48 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: tying deacon]
jeffhasapond Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
I faced this same dilemma a couple of years ago. Basically the same scenario, I found a dead deer submerged in the pond in partial decomposition.

I wasn't sure what to do. So what did I do? I called Dave in El Dorado. He said leave it be. I praised his wisdom and intelligence (mainly because I was afraid he would tell me to remove it immediately and I wasn't sure how I was going to remove good sized deer from the pond that was already disintegrating before my eyes).

So I left the deer be. Interestingly two large bullhead camped out right next to the carcass. Although I never actually witnessed them eating from it, it is my belief that they took on vulture-like behavior and were munching on the carcass.

My pond is between 2 and 3 acres so I wasn't too worried about water contamination.

After about a month there was no remaining evidence that the deer had ever been there.

It did occur to me that several months after the dead deer incident, I found a large Bullhead dead and floating in the shallows of the pond. I used a paddle and threw the Bullhead carcass up onto the shore. I think that deep down I was hoping for some X Files/Twilight Zone/Outer Limits type of scenario in which some deer would graze upon the dead Bullhead but I have no proof that it ever actually happened.
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

Top
#238217 - 10/17/10 01:19 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: jeffhasapond]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3083
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Jeff was your deer also wounded? Not sure if it is
true, but someone told me once that bow hunters have
a higher incidence of wounding deer that run off "never"
to be found...of course they probably eventually collapse
from their wounds.


_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


Top
#238218 - 10/17/10 01:42 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Zep]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
As a bow hunter, I can attest to the real possibility of wounding a deer that is not recovered. The picture above actually appears to have entered the deer within the "kill" zone, but may have been shot from behind and pierced the deer too far forward. An arrow can be easily deflected by bone, while a bullet rairly is. However, most of the deer that I have found wounded and dead (or dying) on my property were from bullet wounds; that goes for hunters tracking deer as well)-- More gun hunters with less time preparing. A deer must be quite close to hit with an arrow while a gun is easy to use at a greater distance with just the pull of a trigger. They could skip gun season as far as I'm concerned -- Too easy for poor hunters to let lead fly. That said, more hunters are good than are bad, but it only takes a few. Snappers should take care of your carcass if you have them in the pond and it is warm enough.


Edited by RAH (10/17/10 01:46 PM)

Top
#238220 - 10/17/10 01:54 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: RAH]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3083
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Thanks Ray.

Here is an interesting link I ran across that is kind
of related. I guess we should all be careful when we
are by ourselves in mud around our ponds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrjBJ-OM5OA
_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


Top
#238222 - 10/17/10 01:59 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Zep]
jeffhasapond Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Originally Posted By: Zep
Jeff was your deer also wounded?

He was dead so I'm thinking yes... although I didn't get all CSI on the carcass.

Now that I think about it though the deer had been acting rather depressed the week prior to me finding him in the pond so I guess I cannot rule out suicide.
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

Top
#238225 - 10/17/10 03:08 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: RAH]
txelen Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: RAH
They could skip gun season as far as I'm concerned -- Too easy for poor hunters to let lead fly. That said, more hunters are good than are bad, but it only takes a few.


+1

I was up in Northern WI week before last when shotgun season started. VERY uncomfortable to hear gunfire close by in thick trees, I'm quite certain that a lot of those guys have no idea what is behind their target. I'd like deer hunting to be bow only.
_________________________
Ponds in TX, lake place in WI, me in CA

Top
#238227 - 10/17/10 04:13 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: txelen]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: txelen
I was up in Northern WI week before last when shotgun season started. VERY uncomfortable to hear gunfire close by in thick trees, I'm quite certain that a lot of those guys have no idea what is behind their target. I'd like deer hunting to be bow only.


Couldn't have been deer season - only archery is open. Herd reduction and CWD areas first gun season is 10-14 thru 10-17.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#238243 - 10/17/10 08:29 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: esshup]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19537
Loc: Miss.
I started to remove one from the pond once. Bad idea - very bad idea. Just push it into deeper water. Time and turtles will work their magic. I think they get thirsty and head for water
_________________________















Top
#238273 - 10/17/10 09:52 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: ewest]
tying deacon Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
I have a few snappers and acting upon this collective wisdom I believe I will leave it to them.

Top
#238274 - 10/17/10 09:53 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: tying deacon]
Brettski Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6905
Loc: Illinois
Or, you could invite Catmandoo for a North Carolina fall mini-vacation
_________________________


Top
#238279 - 10/17/10 10:22 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Brettski]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
You haven't lived until you've seen a rotting carcass explode! grin crazy

Regarding bow hunters many are very proficient and conscientious, but there are some number that have no business hunting with a bow until they do some serious practicing. Back when I used to mount deer (I now specialize in fish), I used to make the rounds of all the deer check stations/archery and gun shops just before bow season. I was amazed at the people that were preparing at the last minute for archery season, and was told by a few archery shop owners that many of these guys were horrid shots.

I've seen my share of broadhead remnants etc. when I used to visit a deer processing plant. I was amazed at how some of these deer still functioned and how tough of an animal they must be. I still have a broadhead embedded in a spinal column of a deer that was poached by a rifle that seemed fine otherwise. This was given to me after the guy was caught redhanded.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#238280 - 10/17/10 10:23 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: RAH]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Originally Posted By: RAH
As a bow hunter, I can attest to the real possibility of wounding a deer that is not recovered. The picture above actually appears to have entered the deer within the "kill" zone, but may have been shot from behind and pierced the deer too far forward. An arrow can be easily deflected by bone, while a bullet rairly is. However, most of the deer that I have found wounded and dead (or dying) on my property were from bullet wounds; that goes for hunters tracking deer as well)-- More gun hunters with less time preparing. A deer must be quite close to hit with an arrow while a gun is easy to use at a greater distance with just the pull of a trigger. They could skip gun season as far as I'm concerned -- Too easy for poor hunters to let lead fly. That said, more hunters are good than are bad, but it only takes a few. Snappers should take care of your carcass if you have them in the pond and it is warm enough.


RAH,

What do you thing of the bill to allow high powered rifles in Indiana?
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#238284 - 10/17/10 10:49 PM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Cecil Baird1]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Cecil, they already allow them for predators, and the same cartridges can be shot in handguns, with the same "reach".

A 50 BMG cartridge is legal to use for predators and for deer if you've got big enough hands to control the recoil from a handgun.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#238293 - 10/18/10 05:27 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 10457
Loc: northern VA
If we only allowed archery hunting, we'd never be able to manage the deer herd properly. Archery gear just isn't efficient enough to remove the 30+% of the deer herd that is needed in most areas to keep a deer population stable.

There certainly are areas where archery hunting is the only option such as highly urbanized areas. Those are few and far between though. In areas where there is a bit more room, buck shot is a reasonable alternative. The county I work in is highly urbanized. You can archery hunt/crossbow hunt on any size acreage. However, in order to buckshot hunt you must have 20 contiguous acres and they need to be properly posted with signs stating "firearms in use". Buckshot isn't much more efficient distance wise than archery gear but it is a bit more efficient in harvesting deer. A lot of guys get a little carried away and try to shoot deer out past the 30-40 yard range with buckshot. Inside that range though, a well patterned shotgun is deadly with buckshot. Unfortunately, many guys are either too lazy or too uninformed to experiment with different brands/loads and chokes to find what works best in their guns.

Slugs and muzzleloaders would be next in the order. I have a slug gun that is accurate out to 200 yards. Compared to a high powered rifle though, the distance its projectile will fly is pathetic. Of course high powered rifles are last... A bullet from a high powered rifle can be deadly over 2 miles away. However, banning things because some people are irresponsible is not the answer in my humble opinion. Punish those who can't control themselves and are incapable of being sure of their target and what is beyond it...

In some states the decision to only allow slugs is probably a wise choice. Less because of their reduced ballistic down range danger, but rather they reduce the harvest a bit and therefore produce better hunting in areas where hunting pressure is high. I sometimes wish Pennsylvania would go to slugs over high powered rifles to produce better hunting, that's never going to happen in my lifetime though.

In Pennsylvania on opening day of firearms/rifle season for deer, there are in excess of 750,000 hunters in the woods. Back in the early 90's there were over a million. Even in highly urbanized parts of Pennsylvania, it is quite rare for a dwelling to be struck by an errant bullet. Usually those errant bullets are because of extreme ignorance and carelessness. Many guys hunt from treestands, this means they are shooting downward. Pennsylvania doesn't allow semi-automatic rifles, but many areas of my home state Virginia do. I've seen guys hunting deer with AK-47's, BAR's and other assault type rifles. Even with all those bullets getting sprayed around, it's again very rare for an errant bullet to hit a dwelling.

Just out of curiosity do we even know this deer was even shot? There are 1 of several diseases and other ailments that could sicken and kill a deer this time of year...
_________________________
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

Top
#238294 - 10/18/10 06:11 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: esshup]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Originally Posted By: esshup
Cecil, they already allow them for predators, and the same cartridges can be shot in handguns, with the same "reach".

A 50 BMG cartridge is legal to use for predators and for deer if you've got big enough hands to control the recoil from a handgun.


True but I just don't have a lot of faith in some people to use discretion with a high powered rifle in an area with lots of potential collateral targets. And there are a lot more people that hunt deer than predators.

But you and CJ may be right; maybe my fears are unfounded. However even in a tree stand where you are shooting at a downward angle the topography can change enough so that a bullet can carry.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/18/10 07:41 AM)
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#238303 - 10/18/10 07:20 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13565
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Having seen several deer with arrows in their rumps, I allow no bow hunting on my land. Actually, I let virtually nobody but family hunt on my place. Deer are amazingly tough.

IMO, the average hunter couldn't track a wounded elephant through a fresh snowbank. Since an arrow kills by internal hemorrhage instead of shock, I think tracking skills should be made mandatory prior to bow hunting. Too many people pick up a bow to extend their hunting season without having the requisite skills.

I spend time during the year trying to track and backtrack deer. I can't do it and really haven't found that many people who can.

That's why I hunt with a cannon.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

Top
#238308 - 10/18/10 08:05 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Todd3138 Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3490
Loc: North Central WV
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Too many people pick up a bow to extend their hunting season without having the requisite skills.

That's why I hunt with a cannon.


Couldn't agree with you more, Dave. I would probably enjoy bow hunting, but I feel that the time it takes to become truly proficient - so you are hunting as humanely as possible - is just greater than I can afford to take. A rifle works just fine and I suspect is a lot easier to remain proficient with than a bow based on my own shooting experience. And besides, the season can easily be extended without a bow when you own more than a city lot!
_________________________
Todd La Neve


Click Here to Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

1.5 & .5 ac ponds - LMB, BG, RES, YP, GC, HSB

Top
#238314 - 10/18/10 08:51 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Todd3138]
Sgt911 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Giddings, Texas
I found a 10pt and 6pt floating in my pond a few years ago, they apparently were fighting, locked horns and drowned in the pond. I pulled them both out and let the buzzards have them.
_________________________
"Is the Poop-Deck really what I think it is?" - Homer Simpson

"A man can't just sit around" - Larry Walters, 1982


Top
#238327 - 10/18/10 09:53 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Cecil Baird1]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
But you and CJ may be right; maybe my fears are unfounded. However even in a tree stand where you are shooting at a downward angle the topography can change enough so that a bullet can carry.


But, you're forgetting about gravity. That has a tremendous effect on a bullet. The maximum range that people talk about a bullet flying is when it's shot up in the air, not at a target on the ground.

For instance, take a 30-06, which is a common round for deer hunting. If it's sighted in at 200 Yds, and shot at a deer that is 200 Yds away and you miss, the bullet will hit the ground at roughly 220 yds past it's intended target. Granted there are ricochets and other things to consider, but rifle bullets don't typically fly for miles and miles if the target is missed.

Take my long range gun. That gun can kill an elk that is a mile away. To hit that elk, if the gun is sighted in at 100 Yds, I have to aim 65.5 FEET over the target to hit it.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#238331 - 10/18/10 10:07 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: esshup]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
I started deer hunting with a shotgun (no rifles allowed in Illinois) after 2 years of bow hunting I no longer buy gun tags. In the 4 years of bow hunting I've arrowed 7 deer, that's 7 arrows 7 shots never lost a deer or wounded one. I think with bow you have to be more accurate and te deer has to be close to get a good shot. I lost deer with shotgun but never with a bow. So to me in my experience bow is better. Also this weekend on Friday and Saturday I seen a big buck I could of tsken a risky shot at long yardage in almost dark conditions and possibly killed the nicest buck of my life or on the other hand I could have wounded the nicest buck of my life and never found or seen him again.. So I guess it just matters on how you hunt. Sorry to get off subject on this just my thoughts on some of the post I was reading..
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


Top
#238340 - 10/18/10 11:08 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13565
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Gotta admit that I have lost deer that I've hit with my 30-06. Not only hit; but hit hard in the vitals. No question that they went somewhere to die.

I don't take real long shots. I have to figure that the deer is just about to be venison or I don't shoot. And yet, sometimes they amaze me when they get up and run away. In 50 or so years of deer, antelope and elk hunting, I'm sure I've lost 3 whitetails. I don't feel real good about that. I've never lost a mulie, elk or antelope.

I passed up the biggest whitetail of my life in 2008. It was about 300 or so yards away with a 25 to 30 mph crosswind. I had no idea where to aim so I passed. I had seen it the year before but decided to give it one more year. I doubt that we will cross paths again.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

Top
#238345 - 10/18/10 11:19 AM Re: Dead Deer [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
You might be surprised. If he ain't dead there's a good chance you'll meet again, although this time it could be 500 yards 50 mph winds. I've been hunting the same buck 3 years now I only seen him once the last 2 seasons and I've already seen him twice this year I'm pretty confident I'll get him
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Today's Birthdays
cwooten
Recent Posts
A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish
by snrub
9 minutes 51 seconds ago
Lunker trauma! Sure didn't know this!
by JKS3613
Today at 03:29 PM
Kansas Pond
by snrub
Today at 01:03 PM
State record Green Sunfish one day maybe...
by snrub
Today at 12:44 PM
Hello from Central Texas
by bigpullerman
Today at 12:39 PM
Howdy from Texas
by bigpullerman
Today at 12:38 PM
Hi, everyone!
by bigpullerman
Today at 12:36 PM
A lure you can make from another
by SENKOSAM
Today at 10:10 AM
Amazing the variety of soft plastic fish attack
by SENKOSAM
Today at 10:03 AM
New pond construction diary
by Keaton72
Today at 08:34 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Cant seem to Identify what this is.  Any thoughts?
Evaluating and adjusting Fish populations and ID
Vegetation ID
Our new pond
CNBG
My Best Longear so far

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide