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#226011 - 07/12/10 04:38 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
travism Offline


Registered: 07/07/10
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Loc: Northeast Indiana
I've been watching this thread with interest. One thing I can definitely agree with, Watermeal is one tough hombre. I really hope the money you spent on Diquat was not wasted. If your spray treatments have indeed reduced the Watermeal, that is good news. Nothing has ever worked on Watermeal for me except Fluridone. Yes, it is expensive but it does work.

I have a 3/4 acre pond that was completely covered with Watermeal. One quart of Whitecap applied in early May last year killed all the Watermeal and most of the other vegetation. It is over one year later and no signs of Watermeal but the submerged and emergent plants have come back. I'm expecting the Watermeal to return but I have another quart of Whitecap on hand to stop it in its tracks! If your pond is smaller than 1/2 acre and the infestion is not severe, I suspect that 1 quart of Whitecap may be enough for 2 treatments but I will defer to Greg and the other experts on that.

Best of luck to you!

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#226014 - 07/12/10 04:45 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: travism]
Todd3138 Offline
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Thanks, travism. My neighbor did/does the same thing in his 1/2 acre pond and had results similar to what you described, though as mentioned in an earlier post, he does it every year so not only does he not have WM, he pretty much has nothing else at all. I definitely want some vegetation, but am thinking more and more that it could be worthwhile to go the fluoridone route and then plant some good plants. Given what I've learned about WM, though, I'd probably need to kill it early next spring, then be ready to hit some of stubborn seeds that hang on to the next season as soon as they begin to emerge. I would think that would mean at least two seasons of not planting anything new because the re-treatment may well wipe it out, too.

Given that I've seen some success with diquat at this point - at a pretty reasonable cost (~ $60 for a gallon of Weedtrine D), I'm willing to keep working with this until the chemical is gone and/or the WM is gone. Then we'll re-evaluate and see what comes next.

Thanks again for the input!
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#226220 - 07/13/10 10:48 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Todd3138 Offline
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Interesting thing. I went out to catch a few fish for dinner last night and the WM looks to have reduced even a little bit more. Probably half of the pond was completely clear of it. There was certainly a little bit of bunching, but we didn't really have any breeze to speak of yesterday, so I'm hoping it wasn't just an illusion. I'll probably try another treatment this coming weekend and see if there appears to be any progress.
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#226224 - 07/13/10 10:56 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
The Pond Frog Offline
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Are you still considering the tilipia? They might eat that up and keep eating it up if it reemerges. Tough to tell progress on watermeal. So fine it can stack and look reduced. I have to beleive it is the hardest aquatic plant to eradicate.

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#226226 - 07/13/10 11:08 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: The Pond Frog]
Todd3138 Offline
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Tilapia are out of the mix this year it appears, so we'll try again next year and hopefully get them in by late April/first week of May at the latest. I definitely want to use them as part of my ongoing management of the pond so I can minimize chemical use. I agree that it's tough to tell if there were additional gains beyond what I got from this last treatment because the stuff does seem to stack up so easily, but the pond surface was as nice as it has looked since before the emergence of the WM. Or at least 1/2 of it was that nice!
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#227376 - 07/20/10 10:16 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Todd3138 Offline
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So after a little less than a week since the last treatment, I did another treatment at a higher mixture of the Weedtrine D - 24 oz. in 1 gallon of water with 1 oz. of Adjuvant. I concentrated the entire mixture in an area along roughly 50 - 75 feet of shoreline and as far out as the mist would go. This was about 4 days ago. We went out tonight and, while there was a nice breeze, it wasn't too heavy and I have clearly made progress on the watermeal. I have to say that we are at least 1/2 of what it used to be, and possibly 1/3 of what it used to be. With a little luck, tomorrow I'll go out in the canoe and spray again, hitting as much of it as I can effectively spray. After the initial failure at a low concentration, I was kind of discouraged, but realized that Greg and Pond Frog had been saying it would take consistent application to see any possible progress this year with the plant so far emerged. Sticking with it has proven to get us real results and, I've gotta say, it's pretty darn exciting to see it working! Back at it tomorrow if we can and hit it with another treatment.
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#227409 - 07/21/10 06:58 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Thanks for update Todd- glad others can learn from your expreience. As mentioend first with our success on diquat and WM it took spraying it almost daily at times followed byt when we saw it. For whitecap option we wdoul need to know average depth and surface acres to see how much you need.
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#227425 - 07/21/10 09:59 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Greg Grimes]
Todd3138 Offline
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This pond is about a 1/2 acre and has an average depth of probably no more than 3 feet.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm really psyched to see the progress.
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#227436 - 07/21/10 11:30 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
The Pond Frog Offline
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I always like to hear feedback on herbicide application, actually anything that might improve my game. If I may ask a couple of questions, how are you judging your progress? Are you seeing dead watermeal, or just less covering the surface? In your opinion, would you say the higher concentration of active ingrediant or the multiple applications had more effect, maybe a combination of both? Are you able to spot treat with any effect, and save adjacent plants? Your sprayer nozzle is set to mist? Thank you very much for reporting back. I am always happy for a pond owner that makes progress and begins to win thier pond back. It is a morale builder.


Edited by The Pond Frog (07/21/10 11:32 AM)

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#227438 - 07/21/10 11:39 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: The Pond Frog]
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That's great Todd!
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#227451 - 07/21/10 12:44 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: The Pond Frog]
Todd3138 Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
I always like to hear feedback on herbicide application, actually anything that might improve my game. If I may ask a couple of questions, how are you judging your progress? Are you seeing dead watermeal, or just less covering the surface? In your opinion, would you say the higher concentration of active ingrediant or the multiple applications had more effect, maybe a combination of both? Are you able to spot treat with any effect, and save adjacent plants? Your sprayer nozzle is set to mist? Thank you very much for reporting back. I am always happy for a pond owner that makes progress and begins to win thier pond back. It is a morale builder.


Let's see if I can hit all your questions, PF.

I believe I have achieved an actual reduction because there appears to be substantially less WM now than when I began. Even though it's been stacked up the past couple of times out, it covers a much smaller area than it did previously and the layer is visually not as thick all over as it used to be when it stacked.

I have seen dead/dying watermeal the day after treatment (the last time with the heavier concentration was the first time I've been able to go back the very next day). It was turning various shades of brown and yellow.

My suspicion is that the higher concentration is what is really doing it as that was the first noticeable impact, but I think it would be crazy not to believe that there is some good cumulative effect happening here from what is now 3 treatments.

Spot treatment has not really been used at this point, so it's hard to say. Based on some observations of the last treatment, I'd guess it may work at high concentrations.

The nozzle is on mist and, as a result, I've definitely had some shoreline vegetation casualties, but I'm not too worried about that right now. I've been trying generally to be pretty careful with overspray going to undesirable places, but it can't be helped sometimes when misting. I have to say that the greatest single impact seems to have occurred when misting versus using a stream.

I'm looking forward now to perhaps getting another treatment in tomorrow as today just isn't going to work. I'll keep posting. And you are spot on, PF, that this is a morale builder for sure. It's been great to actually be able to go out and enjoy the look of the pond again and it encourages me to keep on it until the stuff disappears either from treatment or from cold, then to get an early start next year with chemicals and tilapia as early as I possibly can.
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#227452 - 07/21/10 12:44 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: jeffhasapond]
Todd3138 Offline
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Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
That's great Todd!


Thanks, Jeff. It's been really encouraging to see what I believe is a change in the right direction.
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#227457 - 07/21/10 01:02 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
The Pond Frog Offline
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Thanks for the feedback Todd, that is what makes this forum great!!!

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#227516 - 07/21/10 06:24 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: The Pond Frog]
Todd3138 Offline
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Glad to contribute in a little way, PF.

As an addendum to my earlier post, I had to stop out at the farm today briefly to grab a few things and when I pulled up, I was utterly shocked to see that the WM present yesterday - already a smaller amount - had easily been cut in half yet again! It was amazing, but it was easily a 1/3 to 1/2 further reduction. All I can attribute it to is the cumulative effect of the Weedtrine/Diquat in the water and that it is now really catching up with the WM. At this rate, I'm going to check it again tomorrow as we're probably going to spend a few hours there tomorrow evening and, depending on what I see, may or may not apply another dose.

The breeze again today had stacked it up, but it now occupies a "corner" of the pond no more than probably 75 - 100 feet of shoreline, if that, and extends out from being flush with the banks at each end of the mass to perhaps a max of 20 feet out in the rough center. Yesterday, it was along that same shoreline, but for easily double or more of that distance. It didn't extend any further than where it is today, but just took up a lot more shoreline distance.

Just amazing to me and absolutely exciting to see that we appear to be making headway. As long as I can stay on it this season, my hope is that next spring it will be much easier to reign in via hopefully a lighter use of chemicals and tilapia. When I have a few minutes, I'll post a series of pics showing it from start to where it is as of the time I do that post.

Thanks again to everybody for your input along the way with this effort.
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#227550 - 07/22/10 12:54 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
esshup Offline
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Todd, if you have a chance tomorrow, I'd hit it again. You've got it reeling towards the ropes, don't let it get back on it's feet.
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#227562 - 07/22/10 09:03 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: esshup]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Todd great news. The diquat does nto have a cumulative effect. It is a contact herbicide. So if you have less watermeal it is from past efforts not just diquat in the water. Keep in mind with WM you have some in different stages of development and in the watercolumn as well. This is the tough part of killing with diquat.

Do you still have the other submersed grasses? Hopefully so since you wanted to save. If not yes fyi one 8 ozs whitecap will do- $140 for PB members.

I hope your efforts prove two things it can be done with diquat and also the effort required for diquat control vs. flouridone.

Scott is right on with his comment, Like I said we hit it back to back days mutiple times in our eradication efforts.
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#227585 - 07/22/10 01:57 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Greg Grimes]
Todd3138 Offline
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So I stopped by the farm on my way home from work today (yep, half day today! Woohoo!) and saw that the WM was more prevalent than I thought. I suspect some of it may have been knocked down temporarily from the heavy isolated rains we've had the last few days, but it's definitely still less than it was before. I will be applying another dose late afternoon today and will go with the heavier concentration I used last time.

Greg, thanks for clarifying that diquat is contact only and isn't likely to have a cumulative effect. Didn't realize that. I'll probably be picking up some Whitecap from you as I'm still not ruling out that path. At this point I don't care about the submerged stuff so much as I did when I first began this - my goal is purely to eliminate the WM at just about whatever cost, so if I lose other plants, so be it. I'll probably hold off till spring for that.

In any event, I have made progress for sure and will keep after it.
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#228849 - 07/29/10 06:45 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Todd3138 Offline
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Well, I didn't keep after it as I should have, but work kind of got in the way. As a result, the WM is back strong and so I'm going the Whitecap route. Got it in today from Greg. Purchased Monday and arrived today. Outstanding discount on an 8 oz. bottle and absolutely prompt service. I truly appreciate having the resources like Greg and others that we're fortunate to have here. I'm heading out tonight to apply the Whitecap and will keep you posted on how this works compared to the 3 applications of Weedtrine. FWIW, I think the Weedtrine might have been more effective, as has been suggested, on the early emergent WM as opposed to trying to nail it after it had reached full growth and strength. It definitely did make a dent, but my inability to stay on it day after day cost me in the long run here.
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#228879 - 07/29/10 10:16 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Todd3138 Offline
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We got the Whitecap applied tonight. Mixed it into 5 gallons of water in a bucket, and, since the label said it can achieve greater results when mixed with other herbicides, I added in some Cutrine and Weedtrine along with a few ounces of adjuvant/wetting agent. We then hopped in the canoe and my wife paddled while I poured the mixture in spots all around the pond. I'd pour and she'd stir it up pretty good with the paddle as she got to it. After we had emptied the bucket, we both paddled around the pond 5 or 6 times, trying to really stir things up and get some water movement going just to help it along a bit more on its spread throughout the whole pond. Now we just sit back and wait, I guess. I'm hoping that we can see some results with this treatment even though all the advice seems to say it's tough, perhaps even with fluoridone, to kill the WM at this time of year. Everyone think good thoughts! Well, actually, think bad thoughts for the WM and hope that it dies a fast, yet painful, death! grin
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#236432 - 10/01/10 06:10 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Blaine Offline
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Todd,

It's been two month now. Any signs of progress in your war?
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#236579 - 10/03/10 04:09 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Blaine]
Todd3138 Offline
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Hey, Blaine, yeah, I've seen a substantial reduction - a real one this time around - after that Whitecap treatment (did I mention that Greg Grimes gave me a sweatheart of a deal on it just for being a PB member? laugh ).

There is still enough there that on a totally calm day, it will spread a very, very thin layer over perhaps a quarter of the pond, but it's thin enough that it's not too visually troubling. With just a little breeze, it tends to all stack up on a shoreline into a nice, tight little area where I'm sometimes able to scoop a little bit out just to take a small manual removal stab at it.

We're getting into some pretty chilly nights coming up here and I am hoping that this will be enough to finish it off earlier than it was last year.

An interesting observation has also been that the Whitecap (did I mention the great deal from Greg Grimes? grin ), of course, knocked out pretty much everything else in the pond, but the chara has just started coming back in the past few weeks, to the point now that in many areas it's a few inches tall/deep. I've noticed a lot of small fish hanging around in it where it's close to shore, so it may be a great addition for the winter by providing a place for the YOY fish to hide out, at least for awhile.

Thanks for asking, Blaine.
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#236639 - 10/04/10 07:16 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
Buzzworth Offline


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GREAT information here. I will be starting my battle with duckweed and watermeal in the spring. Looks like i'll go straight to Whitecap in March or April and nip it in the bud.

buzz

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#236655 - 10/04/10 09:57 AM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Buzzworth]
esshup Offline
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Bizz, just make sure that you keep the recommended ppm concentration for the recommended length of time or you're just wasting $$.
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#236835 - 10/05/10 04:43 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Buzzworth]
Todd3138 Offline
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Hey, Buzz, esshup's advice is dead on - that concentration is the key to success. Are you aware that Greg Grimes (www.lakework.com) has a phenomenal deal for PB subscribers? grin In case you're looking, he'd be a great resource!

I wish you the best of luck - in my short pond ownership time, I can tell you that watermeal is the single worst thing I have experienced, and that includes a dam in another pond that was screwed up by muskrats. I'd take that over watermeal any day. At least I can shoot the muskrats and get a little satisfaction!
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#236838 - 10/05/10 05:36 PM Re: Watermeal Spreading Quickly [Re: Todd3138]
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Todd thanks for update and I need to get you on commission. smile Just glad things worked for the expensive but neccesary herbicide.
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