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#235061 - 09/17/10 06:31 PM gizzard shad
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
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Will bass, crappie and hybrids eat gizzard shad?

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#235064 - 09/17/10 06:43 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
Rainman Offline
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#235078 - 09/17/10 09:44 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: Rainman]
esshup Offline
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Yes BUT:

Make sure you have good population of large LMB in the pond. If not, the Gizzards can overpopulate and will out compete the fish in the pond.

Bob Lusk has a size that the LMB should be before stocking gizzards.
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#235086 - 09/17/10 10:01 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: esshup]
ewest Offline
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GShad




TShad



SRAC 0140: Forage Fish - Introduction and Species
It is important to distinguish between the "look-alike" threadfin shad and the gizzard shad, as normally only the threadfin is suitable for pond stocking. Gizzard shad are considered a problematic species because they grow too large to serve as forage for most predatory fish, and large numbers of big gizzard shad can accumulate in ponds, interfering with the production of other species. Professional pond management services will stock gizzard shad under certain specific conditions to promote trophy bass production, but as a general rule gizzard shad are to be avoided.

Threadfin and gizzard shad both have a thread-like filament at the end of the dorsal (top) fin, so this thread-like fin does not distinguish the threadfin. The best way to tell the two species apart is that the upper jaw of the gizzard shad extends beyond the lower jaw and has a deep notch in the center. The upper jaw of the threadfin does not extend beyond the lower jaw and it is not notched. Both species have a dark spot on the shoulder, although it is typically darker on the gizzard shad. Another difference is that the gizzard shad does not have any yellow on the fins, although it may have a distinctive yellow spot in the white of the eye that is not found in threadfins. The fins of the threadfin usually have a yellowish tint, and the tail fin is often distinctly yellow. The chin and the floor of the mouth of the threadfin have black specks, while there are none on the gizzard shad.

 

 
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#235094 - 09/17/10 11:00 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: ewest]
james holt Offline
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I think that from what I have learned I would rather have threadfin shad but this is what I have. I did not stock any shad and at one time had both species. I have such large populations of the gizzard shad that throwing a cast net from shore and catching them is not difficult. Here is what I dont get why dont the hybrid striped bass just go crazy on the schools of shad. They seem to be much more in tune with when the feeders are going to go off than eating the shad or for that matter the bluegill. I was also reading that having large populations of gizzard shad can contribute to increasing the nutrient load. This in turn increases the filamentous algae. As you can see these are still small as are almost all the shad I have seen. The board is six inches wide. How do you keep the numbers in check?

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#235096 - 09/17/10 11:44 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
MRHELLO Offline
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Those look like TShad to me. And if you are feeding maybe cut back some and they will start eating them.

I think the fish have become lazy and want that pellet.

It is like 6 women feeding a king grapes. LOL

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#235101 - 09/18/10 12:12 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: MRHELLO]
Rainman Offline
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James, your HSB don't need to do much more than open their mouths to eat the pellets, but they need to work a bit more for the shad.

I'd bet if you cut off the feeder for a few weeks they would learn to like shad a lot more. smile grin
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#235104 - 09/18/10 01:14 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: Rainman]
esshup Offline
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Gshad are intolerant of low doses of rotenone. A local state park was treated a year ago with rotenone at a dosage where it only affected the Gshad.

Another local lake had them bucket stocked. The LMB aren't large enough to prey on the adults, so the Gshad population exploded. The last gill net survey the DNR did showed 60% of the biomass to be Gshad.
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#235113 - 09/18/10 08:54 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: esshup]
james holt Offline
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Loc: gainesville texas
Here are some more pics. The last pic is the largest I have caught so far.

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#235114 - 09/18/10 09:04 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
james holt Offline
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Loc: gainesville texas
I actually culled about a three pound bass yesterday because it was skinny. I did an autopsy and it didnt have anything in its stomach.

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#235153 - 09/18/10 10:10 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
ewest Offline
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It must have been sick with all the forage you have.

Some are GShad some are TShad as best I can tell. At that size I would not worry about them. Your HSB are eating shad I bet.
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#235157 - 09/19/10 01:20 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: ewest]
overtonfisheries Offline
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I'll bet that in the survey you find room and a niche to stock some wild adult florida bass....I know where to find some. Or some Blue Cats..... wink

We'll see. I wish we could have surveyed when we installed your system but I understand you had prior arrangements.
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#235164 - 09/19/10 04:52 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: overtonfisheries]
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I still think a shad/blue cat/HSB pond would be a lot of fun for an angler looking for hard fighting fish to angle for...
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#235202 - 09/19/10 08:14 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: CJBS2003]
ewest Offline
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That might take some creative mgt but would interesting to try. Needs to be at least 3 acres or bigger.
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#235231 - 09/20/10 02:26 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: ewest]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Yes, any pond with shad would have to be that big and if you wanted to grow larger blue cats, it'd have to be more like 10 acres.
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#235271 - 09/20/10 08:55 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: CJBS2003]
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
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Loc: gainesville texas
Todd forgive me but what is the difference between the wild florida bass and the normal florida bass you sell? You really have my interest. I am hoping that the aeration system improves the water quality because right now I think that is the limiting factor as to what can be done next. I am going to get the cows out of the water and quit fertilizing the pasture above the pond. I was just reading kedric nuts article on gizzard shad he states a largemouth can eat a shad half its body length. pretty impressive. He also states that due to the bluegills body shape a bass can only ingest a bluegill 30% its length. He also states that not even the impressive reproductive capacity of shad can keep up with the voracious apatite of the largemouth bass not even gizzard shad. If this is true then why do gizzard shad sometimes overpopulate when largemouth bass are present?

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#235305 - 09/21/10 09:54 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
Greg Grimes Offline
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James that article is what about ten years old now? I agree with kedric. The reason we stock gizzard shad when bass are bigger is in hopes they stay ahead of the gizzards shad. They remain controversial but in your case they are a big reason your bass are as healthy as they are. Why do they overpopulate- well when you have a limited number of big bass they can get huge tie up biomass and nothing to control them.

For you- you got them , they are nto to big, you have big bass. Monitor to keep and eye on bass and GZ growth. If population decreaes in bass and Wr is very high buy some more bass from Todd. I for one think you have a great setup that is even better with the aeration system now in place. Get ready to catch some monster bass over the next few years.
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#235315 - 09/21/10 10:44 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: Greg Grimes]
ewest Offline
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It is important to make decisions , especially high risk/reward ones , based on as much data , evidence , science and practical knowledge as possible.

Prior threads on Gizzard Shad (GShad) , the Nutt article on trophy LMB and our collective PB thoughts (including Bobís) on the risk and reward of shad, gizzard and threadfin. Some very good science and experience as well as pics and charts in these threads.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=11348&page=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1557&Number=17531#Post17531

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=158807&page=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177656&page=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=187704&page=1 - including Bobís input

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=202827&page=1






Edited by ewest (09/22/10 11:04 AM)
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#235404 - 09/22/10 12:12 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Originally Posted By: james holt
He also states that not even the impressive reproductive capacity of shad can keep up with the voracious apatite of the largemouth bass not even gizzard shad. If this is true then why do gizzard shad sometimes overpopulate when largemouth bass are present?


In a private pond that are managed correctly, gshad generally work well if stocked correctly. It's ponds that are over fished(say many public lakes as well) or under managed/improperly managed where gshad have a problem.

Think the average unmanaged farm pond where there is little management. They are usually full of 10"-12" stunted bass or are so heavily fished there are hardly any bass over 8" and piles of stunted sunfish... Think about what a mess gshad would be in them...
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#235429 - 09/22/10 11:10 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: CJBS2003]
ewest Offline
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Nutt's article is about trophy LMB as a goal. By definition that means every other fish in the lake is managed as forage only. The bigger question is do you want 60% of your carrying capacity tied up in GShad and most of the rest in large LMB. That is what he is talking about.
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#235518 - 09/23/10 04:59 AM Re: gizzard shad [Re: ewest]
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#235560 - 09/23/10 01:58 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: andedammen]
ewest Offline
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That is a lot of very good info Ande !!!! smile I saved it for later reference.
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#235795 - 09/25/10 09:18 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: ewest]
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
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Loc: gainesville texas
Today I helped my father in law catch shad out of my pond. We threw the cast net three times around one of the diffusers and caught enough shad to fill a five gallon cooler. We caught what I thought were both gizzard and thread fin shad. Some of the gizzard shad were as big as my hand. We also caught in the net bass and crappie. Why are all these fish attracted to the diffusers?

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#235800 - 09/25/10 09:24 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: james holt]
CJBS2003 Offline
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The area closest to the diffuser holds the most DO... The shad love higher DO levels and the bass and crappies love the shad as well as the higher DO levels themselves.
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#235860 - 09/26/10 04:02 PM Re: gizzard shad [Re: CJBS2003]
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1719
Loc: gainesville texas
I took one of the bass that we caught in the cast net just to see how many of these three inch shad he could eat at a time. the bass weighed about a pound. Without forcing the shad I was able to put four of them into his stomach at once. My next experiment will be to take one of the gizzard shad that is about eight inches long and see if a four pound bass can fit him into his stomach.

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