Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking fished out of balance

If you never had straight bluegill, or they have been eliminated/crossbred out, then no, it can't balance.

There is an article in the current Pond Boss Magazine about "transferring" fish. Not as cheap nor easy as it sounds once time and fuel are thought of. Plus if you're not an expert at identifiction, you are never sure you are getting the right fish. It takes several hundred fish of the right size/species.


In my case, my DOT cert was pulled due to a recent illness/allergic reaction that had me in the ICU for 8 days and nearly killed me. It did quite a bit of heart/lung/liver damage....it all appears to be healing/regenerating well now.

Well thats good news about your recovery to be sure. As im reading it its bad news about the fish that need removed(14< bass) just have to eat what we can and toss the rest? Thats unfortunate. As far as cross breed out on the bg? Are you saying I need to remove all I can and start over with fresh brood? And the crappie thing? Do I need to be completely rid of the crappie? Other than the magazine(which I'll shortly subscribe to) are any of the other publications relevant to this problem?

I'm sure there are other publications, but none come to mind other than Bob Lusk's book on Pond management. You can link to it here Pond Boss Books.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves thinking this is solved. HBG could explain the problem, Crappie may be the problem too, but we don't know yet. Let's either get Nate out there to know for sure or get a lot more info and pics before jumping to any conclusions.

I think (in addition to having Nate Herman visit your place) that buying a copy of "Raising Trophy Bass" by Bob Lusk on the Pond Boss web site is the best place to get an understanding of how to accomplish your goals.

This recommendation based on the statement, "Ultimately I want huge bass and cats and could not really care about the rest of them(other than the balance they provide of course) but I'm not huge BG fisherman. How many bass can my pond support in the5-8 lb range?"

Bing

You need to know the facts before you try to fix the pond. Take pics of some of the sunfish. Learn how to know what to look for from the prior links to make an assessment.

For sure! Im not in a hurry(as I've let the pond settle for 2 years before doing anything knowing the wrong move could be catastrophic) I wont jump into a wrong decision. I am afraid I left a message at Nates house instead of his office so I'll try him tomorrow. All your info is remarkable and extremely helpful. I cant thank you enough is all I can think of to all the Pond Boss members helping me with this labor of love. So, the PB news letter and the Growing Trophy Bass....any others that might be helpful or will that do it for now? I will have more pics in short order (tomorrow most likely) and well get these little buggers identified. I have already had to make some radical changes in thought about whats going on here simply based on the fact that I'm pretty sure they are HBG and not red ears. I also think there are more than one species in play as far as the sunfish population. You guys are great and i look forward to having a great time on here. especially after this is all behind us and on to the task at hand...landin' grandaddy! haha Thanks so much and all the best, Dan

The "Basic Pond Management" book is the one I would suggest first.

We're all passionate about ponds here and many of us make a living at it. None of us want to see a fellow pondmeister do anything other than reach their goals! Post pics and keep us all informed! We all learn from every experience.

No two ponds, pond owners, methods or situations are alike.

I surly will post pics and keep all interested informed of the progress (or god forbid regress). I think it would be down right uncivilized to do anything but that given the amount of help in just a few posts. I grabbed the trophy bass book and the subscription so well see how that goes. I'll probably wind up with the whole library before its over. hehe. At any rate...I'll be doing some investigative research, via Revo/Ugly Stick, this weekend. I'll get some more pics with more pic and less glare if i can figure it out. I'm not really all that coordinated haha. Maybe the wifey will help me over come a shortcoming in the photography area and we can actually have something cool to look at and identify. Thanks for all the info and help guys its a great reminder that people are still good in this world. All the best, Dan

P.S. Is that to say i need to stock some pure blood bluegill? I just saw that post.(enter embarrassed emoticon here). If thats the case it really makes sense to revert back to pures instead of the hybrid. If it was done in a short time frame, as not to starve the medium sized bass, could I fish out the hybrids and replace with pures?

Dan, the original HBG stocked are the only fish that will grow to a larger size. The parent HBG will reproduce, but mostly male offspring (around 95% male) and the offspring are VERY inferior (DNA damaged) than the parents.

What few female offspring produced from the original HBG parents that spawn with the male offspring (or original male HBG)revert back more toward the Green Sunfish (GSF) that the originals were crossed with.

Now, for the benefit of our beloved member Jhap,I have to say that GSF are beautiful fish and prolific breeders. I also have to say thaat GSF are a nasty little pest in a pond, but stunted offspring from HBG are even worse. The GSF will quickly produce so many fish that there is simply not enough food in a pond to feed all of them and they can't grow much...thus they stunt, usually at around 3 inches.

Three inch fish are great forage for a bass 9 inches long, but too much work to catch for the calories gained for a bass 12-16 inches long. The bass in that size range do not have a fish near the size to make it grow so they merely survive on the small fish and never grow bigger.

If needed, adding pure northern strain (aka straight) bluegill will allow your forage base (the bluegill) to recover all size ranges your bass need to grow properly. Unlike a HBG, BG will produce equal numbers of males and females and LOTS of babies of equal quality to the parents for the bass to eat. The babies that survive will grow as big or bigger than the parents.

We like pictures!

When you do, it would help us gauge the size of the fish if there was something near the fish that was a good indicator of the size. A ruler or tape measure is perfect.....

Well then pictures it is! I'am heading there shortly(after the kids head off to school) and will go crazy with the camera. It sounds like i need to be ready to restock with the straight BGs as it were. Oh yea?? Why dont I get the dancing fish saying I subscribe? haha.

This is a great post and can't wait for pictures.

With pics and info we can likely do an assessment or at least help you decipher what you are seeing. Having Nate look will be a big plus. In reading Trophy Bass (an excellent book) keep in mind that you are in a cooler climate than most trophy bass lakes.

ok ...theres a million of these and smaller. Also, I must be a little slow getting back to the groove...I left my solar bats on the dash of the sled last week when I was salmon fishing in Oregon. Consequently the glare is still abound ...duh! Ahh well. It rained like the dickens last night so the water is awful cloudy. Visibility has been reduced to probably 4 or 5 ft.


p.s. The wife says she'll run the camera so I don't look like such a goof to my new found friends so expect some better and more animation on Tuesday hehe.

#3 looks like a straight bluegill to me, but something is odd about it....I'm not sure about any of them as to exact species/cross, but they all look underfed.

Well they are not pure GSF and I am not sure they are HBG. One of them looks like it could be a BG/RES hybrid.

Let the experts come in and give their thoughts.

Those are some nice CC you have though, how big are they?

All those look like BG to me. Both male and female.

I agree with Scott (esshup). BG. Great thread and very informative! Here is a picture of a HBG, which does not match any of those that you posted. Notice the much bigger mouth and the orange bottom fins and trim on the tail.



number 3 looks similar to the pure strains that I catch up here.

The cats are any where from 3 t 10 lbs. The small school of them is probably around 5 to 7. I agree with the under fed thing. Is theat going to be due to over population or just not being grain fed often enough? The bg/hbg/res...what ever they are hehe. do eat meals with the cats. I generally feed every other day and give them about 20 to 25 minutes worth of pellets. Too little? Which generally works out to 3.5 1 lb coffee cans worth. I'd like to get away from bag food entirely if possible but I know at this point its not real likely. The dorsal on the top pic is what I was thinking for the hybrid and the rounder front to the body. But I definitly agree that they look more like the one in the lower pic. Agreed on the pro evaluation. Its time to call the experts

So is that the typical size of BG you catch each time you fish or do you catch any smaller?

I only ask because if you are not catching them much smaller than that, I think the bass are doing "too well" at keeping their numbers down, which is probably why the smaller bass seem healthy and the Big Head Skinny Body fish are missing meals as the BG are just not making it to the ideal size for them to eat.

We have some friends that have the same situation as you minus the CC. I have to say my little girls have enjoyed catching the BG and find them tasty as well.

I think you are going to have to have a fishing party and pull out some Bass and as many crappie are in there.

At least now you have some sort of ID about you BG population and maybe some experts can steer you in the right direction.

I do catch smaller ones but that really is the average size. My experience with catching them is limited as I don't fish with hooks small enough for them to get it in their mouth lol. So in your opinion I have to many small bass? What to take out and what to leave in and what to stock is the question for Nate I think as I must admit I'm knowledgeable but in this case not the master of all things. The kids like the action of the small abundant fish but if they are hindering the larger ones achieving full potential I must do something eh?

Get Nate out there, tell him your goals for the pond and he'll work his magic.

Yep, a whole LOT of fishin!...

All BG. If you have a bunch of those you may be in better shape than you think.

Just tuning in to this thread, and am a pretty rank amateur myself, but I have to agree with Esshup - these all look like regular ole' bluegill. I don't see anything that makes me think hybrid.