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#220680 - 06/08/10 11:46 AM diuron 80df
Mike Miller Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 204
Loc: Hutchinson, Kansas
I just had a client of mine tell me to use diuron 80df on my algae. He says he buys it at the local co-op and that it's purpose is not to kill algae but a lot of people use it for that. He puts it in his pond.

So I thought I would read up on it and then search the board on it. I have read some label info and it says it is for killing algae and pondweed. After searching the board, I see that it is bad stuff and can damage all plant life in and around my pond.

I really do not like the idea of chemicals in my pond at all and plan to stay away from this product. It is probably scarey how many people get this advice and throw this stuff into their ponds.

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#220683 - 06/08/10 11:57 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Mike Miller]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Field Correspondent
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Most definitely Mike. We (since you've been around since 2006, I'm including you in the collective we) have heard some of the strangest stuff here on Pond Boss.

The choice of using chemicals is a personal one, kinda like boxers, briefs or commando. There is no "right" answer, you have to make the decision yourself, you know, do what you're most comfortable with.

Before using any chemical in a pond though the user should carefully research the chemical and know not only how much to apply but also how to apply it. Recklessly throwing chemicals in a pond is very, very stupid.

Personally I've used chemicals in my pond but only after careful research and a consultation with one of our Pond Boss forum experts.
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#222277 - 06/17/10 12:06 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: jeffhasapond]
Poppy Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 7
Loc: East Texas
Hello All,
I am a new member and joned the forum solely for info and advise on this product. I just bought property that included a 3 acre pond with nice LMB and BG in it, but the previous owner instructed me to put this stuff in a sock and throw it into the water every spring. I held off when I read the label and recently had an aquatic manager come do an assessment on the pond. He scared me even worse, and now in a dilemma to just make the pond catch and release, or drain it and start over. I'm thinking of dragging it to see how much of this stuff I can retrieve. If i eat the fish, will I glow at night?

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#222285 - 06/17/10 12:55 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Poppy]
burgermeister Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
Poppy, dont overreact. After reading several labels by diff manufacturers, it is apparent that, as usual, if it is manufactured by companies with deep pockets that can get it labeled for aquatic use, then they do. It will dissipate given a little time. Microbes, which are present in all pond water, help break it down. If you are aerating, apparently it will break down faster.
From my readings: not toxic to fish at recommended levels, but highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates. Is used in Miss. catfish farm ponds to combat blue-green algae outbreaks, which cause off-flavor in their fish. They get EPA exemptions to use it if they are subject to contamination my the Miss. River. Usage rate is 0.5 oz. of product(0.4 oz. active ingredient) per acre ft. Same ingredient as Karmex.
I have never read anything that specifically states that it can legally be used in ponds with fish. There are much better choices that are safer and will kill only the algae. If you drain your pond, then you may and probably will contaminate/kill vegetation downstream.


Edited by burgermeister (06/17/10 01:00 PM)
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#222289 - 06/17/10 01:01 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Poppy]
Todd3138 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3490
Loc: North Central WV
Welcome, Poppy (that's what my kids call my dad!) - we're glad you found the forum. Even though you may have had a single purpose for jumping into the mix, I'm sure that if you take time and read around here, you'll find thousands of reasons to stay with us!

I don't know anything about chemicals, but we have plenty of folks here who do. Burgermeister is an experienced pond manager and I'm sure his advice is sound. Hang on and see what the others have to say as well.

In the meantime, though, please share a little more about your pond with us and tell us your plans and goals. You never know, we may just have some great ideas to help you reach those goals!
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1.5 & .5 ac ponds - LMB, BG, RES, YP, GC, HSB

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#222290 - 06/17/10 01:06 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Todd3138]
burgermeister Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
Todd, as you were posting I added a paragraph to my post, regarding legality of the use in ponds with fish. Also of the better choices.


Edited by burgermeister (06/17/10 01:06 PM)
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#222294 - 06/17/10 01:25 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: burgermeister]
Poppy Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 7
Loc: East Texas
Thanks for the response Mr. Meister and Todd, and yes I have gleaned tons of great info from the forum that will help in my new favorite (obsession) hobby. My wife and I have gardened and landscaped for years, so this is a new spin on the basic land management theme. We bought the property two months ago and are doing weekends for now to and from Dallas. The property is half a mile from Lake Fork, and has tons of beatiful oaks and hickorys on it. A relaxing weekend getaway is a distant memory, but we are having fun learning about country life, and getting lots of exercise. It's great to have our kids and grandkids out and that is ultimately our goal as well, for them to enjoy it in the future. Our consultation has us to focus on a BG feeder and getting the RW on the fish up from the 75-80% range they were estimated in, but still some nice size fish out there (12-18" slot size). Apparently BC as well and were instructed to get them out and stabilize LMB and BG population. Good news was no other unwanted species, and water chemistry was decent. Nice bloom right now, and hoping to add aeration soon.

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#222307 - 06/17/10 03:15 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Poppy]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hi Poppy - welcome to the forum! Your knowledge of pond management is a joy to read - looks like you've got a handle on what's going on in your pond. Congratulations on the recent purchase of your land, and we all look forward to hearing about your development projects: adding a cabin, improving your fishery, building fun stuff for the grandkids [think zipline, they'll love you for it!] and hopefully helping where we can along the way.

A feeder is a great investment - general consensus on the forum is Texas Hunter or Sweeney and Purina Aqua Max pellets. Many aeration options from which to choose - check out the vendor resource guide on the website - they are all terrific people who stand behind their products.

Again, welcome aboard Poppy - we have a great family thing going here and we're happy you're a part of it.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#222314 - 06/17/10 04:16 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: teehjaeh57]
Poppy Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 7
Loc: East Texas
Thanks teehjaeh57,

My knowledge is growing daily and only because of my voracious absorbtion of the expertise of all you people - thanks to this forum and my professional help (if you don't know, ask). I will be wading into the waters that is pond management with the wonderment of a newborn, but hopefully will someday turn it into the oasis we all strive to obtain!

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#222316 - 06/17/10 04:26 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Poppy]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7877
Loc: Lincoln, NE
We're here for ya, Poppy!

Now...how about some pics of your new little slice of heaven? We love visual aids!
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#222322 - 06/17/10 05:35 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: teehjaeh57]
Poppy Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 7
Loc: East Texas
we'll get you pics soon!

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#222454 - 06/18/10 11:14 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Poppy]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Diuron 80DF really should not be used in water. It's worse than nonaquatic glysophate. You know you have a problem when the MSDS #12. directly states: Do not apply directly to water. Do not. I hate to say this, but it is against Federal Law to use this in water. I guess them catfish farmers have to get a commericial waiver. I do know the blue green ruins the flavor of the meat. I don't use this product at all. Too many rules and regs, toxic as all hell, 80% active ingrediant. You are supposed to be trained just to deal with it, rubber gloves and full clothing, no exposed skin to use it. No thanks. Nasty, nasty product.

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#222502 - 06/18/10 03:48 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: The Pond Frog]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19493
Loc: Miss.
diuron (Karmex) should not be used on ponds. If you have trees that absorb water from the pond or its runoff it will kill them. I know a guy who used it and killed a bunch of prized (very large)trees the were 40 yards from the pond.
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#222956 - 06/21/10 05:23 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: ewest]
HoneyHole Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 100
Loc: AL
Mark,

Diuron is indeed not to be used by recreational pond owners. It was not originally made for pond use ,but with research was found to be very good at killing phytoplankton in ponds at very low doses. At high doses it kills most any vegetation. It has been very useful in aquaculture to control intense algae blooms but fish farms have a lot of aeration equipment to handle the fallout from killng of all that algae. Most fishing ponds do not. Low dissolved oxygen from decomposing algae = dead fish. There is a special exemption that must be applied for yearly to allow fish farmers to purchase diuron. Co-ops are not supposed to sell the stuff to anyone without an applicators permit and proof of farm ownership such as Catfish Farmers of America registration here in Alabama.
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#225177 - 07/07/10 01:51 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: The Pond Frog]
Buddy Kniffemn Offline


Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Texas
Send me all you unwanted Karmex..for the past 20 years it has been the only product to kill moss in our stock tanks. a coffee can full spread out with trolling motor works wonders.

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#232282 - 08/25/10 03:59 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Buddy Kniffemn]
Marty Offline


Registered: 08/25/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Illinois
Great Info. I am in a private club and we have an 18 acre lake stocked well with LMB and BG. We have tried several types of chemicals to get rid if the duckweed without success. The past couple of years we have used Diuron and it has done an amazing job. Now we're being told it is illegal to use this stuff so I am trying to detemine if it is really illegal as the individuals indicating such are not lawyers, etc... need some advise as to how we can get rid of this awful duckweed. it has now covered the entire lake.

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#232310 - 08/25/10 07:22 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Marty]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Taken from the label.....

ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS
For terrestrial uses, do not apply directly to water, or to areas where surface water is present,
or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark.

Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment wash waters or rinsate. Apply this
product only as specified on this label.
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.
Do not apply this product in a way that will contact workers or other persons, either directly
or through drift. Only protected handlers may be in the area during application. For any
requirements specific to your State or Tribe, consult the agency responsible for pesticide
regulation.

diuron 80DF

I'd give n8ly a call:

Herman Brothers Pond Management


Edited by esshup (08/25/10 07:27 PM)
_________________________
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#232344 - 08/25/10 11:02 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: esshup]
Kelly Duffie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 1477
Loc: Cypress, TX (Helena A-E LLC))
I often listened to Dr. James Davis (former TAMU extension fisheries specialist) speak to groups on farm pond management. One quote from his repetative presentations has stuck in my mind for a long time.
"More fish have been killed through the misuse of Karmex (aka diuron) than all other pesticides combined." Nuff said.
One should also consider that chemical manufacturers (namely DuPont) would never ignore such a potential high-volume use market (as aquatics) unless there was just cause to do so.

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#233100 - 09/01/10 01:06 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Kelly Duffie]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
I worked for the city for a few years and my dad worked there almost 30 yrs. Every year the city park lakes (2) one 6 acres the other about 10 were always treated with karmax until it was discontinued awhile bak now they are all treated with diuron. These lakes always look excellent and have trees all around them that are very old and young which all seem to be doing very well. Never seen a single dish floating after use. And the stuff worked great and we did the whole lake at one time. However when I built my house on my lake I bought diuron and actually read the label because of concerns to my drinking water well. I don't use it ony pond needless to say. But the stuff I have used to try and control primrose doesn't work worth a sh*t compared to karmax or diuron.. Just my input
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#233157 - 09/01/10 11:30 PM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Kelly Duffie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 1477
Loc: Cypress, TX (Helena A-E LLC))
Sounds like whoever said that KARMEX was "discontinued" is equally misleading customers about the appropriate and legal uses of diuron (btw - the active-ingredients in both products are IDENTICAL - "diuron"). I'm guessing the supplier simply sells the cheaper generic diuron for the same price as the "discontinued" brand-name KARMEX - and pockets the difference.

To this day, DuPont continues to sell their KARMEX brand of diuron, and has done so for over 50 years. However, offshore producers of cheaper generic diuron (of questionable quality and components) are heavily diluting US sales of KARMEX.

Regardless, I could envision diuron following chlordane's path to banishment due to persistent misuse in private ponds - especially as ground water monitoring becomes more critical, efficient and scrutinized. Imagine having your water-well condemned due to diuron contamination. Talk about real estate devaluation!

Regarding the misuse of diuron (by any name) for pond-treatments, here's an illustrative comparison to ponder. Chemotherapy generally kills cancer cells in a patient much more selectively than diuron kills offending algae and weeds in a pond. Yet, in the process, both treatments exact a heavy toll on the well being of the host. Unfortunately, ponds can't provide feedback in an easily understood language.

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#233165 - 09/02/10 07:34 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Kelly Duffie]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
Yeah I think the the supplier was being misleading. When I bought the newer stuff (weedtrine D) right there on the shelf by it KARMAX. What I don't understand is how it's been used on public lakes for 20-30 yrs with great results? Anyways after actually reading the label I didn't use it on my private pond!!
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#233169 - 09/02/10 08:53 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Kelly Duffie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 1477
Loc: Cypress, TX (Helena A-E LLC))
Technically, the supposedly newer product ("Weedtrine D", which contains the active-ingredient "diquat") was first sythesized in 1955, by the Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI) of England. So, it is relatively newer than diuron only by a few years.

Out of curiosity, which "public lakes" have been treated with diuron for 20 - 30 years?

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#233173 - 09/02/10 09:51 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Kelly Duffie]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
I'd rather not say, but I brought it too the cities attention. And they won't be using it anymore. Any suggestion on a brand and name to use on primrose


Edited by ewest (09/02/10 10:49 AM)
_________________________
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.


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#233372 - 09/03/10 07:45 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Field Correspondent
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Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 3973
Loc: Ball Ground, GA
habitat works well
as does 2,4-d liquid in combo with glyphostate.
_________________________
Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#233376 - 09/03/10 08:03 AM Re: diuron 80df [Re: Greg Grimes]
n8ly Offline
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Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 2505
Loc: peoria
somebody looking for employment can do a number on primrose as well. its easy to remove.
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