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#217692 - 05/18/10 04:48 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: CJBS2003]
MRHELLO Offline
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Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Sorry I was not clear I wanted to know if the RES X GSF was much different from either the Pure GSF or Pure RES?

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#231489 - 08/18/10 11:44 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: MRHELLO]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Okay boys - had a breakthrough tonight.

Was fishing the main pond tonight with BC, Matt Harris and his son, Sam. Sam caught several YP up to 12", and we managed some SMB up to 12 and some decent BG. Then Matt landed the fish that inspired this post over 6 mos ago...I've been trying for the last few months without success.

Sorry about the photos - a little blurry - still getting used to my new pond camera. It has the gape of a GSF, but the orange opercular tab of a RES or PS. The body of water from which this was caught has no BG but does have a strong RES population. My thought is somehow GSF were introduced and this is a RES/GSF hybrid. Might there also be some BG genetics? As my initial post indicates, I transported and stocked around a dozen of these [Yes, I intentionally introduce GSF genetics into my pond :o] and have been hoping to catch one again to provide the experts for positive ID.

If this is indeed a GSF/RES hybrid, as far as I know this is the only documentation I've been able to find on the forum, or the entire web for that matter. Thanks to Matt for the catch!

Cody, Eric, Dr Willis...any ideas or are these pix too blurry to allow positive ID?






Attachments
P8180037.JPG (292 downloads)
P8180038.JPG (252 downloads)
P8180036.JPG (249 downloads)

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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231494 - 08/19/10 12:06 AM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
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Could you see about getting a photograph of one these possible GSFxRES hybrid's gill rakers?
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#231539 - 08/19/10 12:15 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
As my initial post indicates, I transported and stocked around a dozen of these [Yes, I intentionally introduce GSF genetics into my pond :o] and have been hoping to catch one again to provide the experts for positive ID.


I congratulate you on your wisdom and valor.

I take back 11 of the 37 bad things I've said about you.


_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#231560 - 08/19/10 01:59 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: jeffhasapond]
Rainman Offline
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No worries TJ as to Jhaps reduction...I added 15 new bad things about you. smile

Were the smallies you caught the ones I delivered to you? Any catches on the Hybrid Crappie?
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#231562 - 08/19/10 02:03 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: Rainman]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
SMB are up to 12" footballs - yes they are all the ones you delivered. I'm going to do an official post of my BC crappie, SMB and the SMB reproduction pond soon.

Many of the SMB are pellet trained. I am blown away at their rapid growth. The big boys have adopted the HSB pelagic tendencies and cruise way out along with the largest YP waiting for 600 pellets. Look/sound like M80's when they feed. I giggle like a little boy.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231571 - 08/19/10 02:34 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19620
Loc: Miss.
TJ are you saying that you put only RES and GSF in the pond or RES and hybrids (like shown) in the pond?
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#231577 - 08/19/10 02:42 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: ewest]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Sorry for the confusion.

One year ago I caught these hybrids while fishing for RES in a lake out in Western NE. The only panfish I have ever caught there have been RES, no BG or GSF. When I caught this fish, I couldn't identify it, so I decided to bring it home and stock in my pond. I was hoping to catch them again, photograph, and post on the forum for ID help.

I've looked everywhere for info/images of RES/GSF hybrids and have never found any for comparison. I thought it would be useful to provide these images for our archives - too bad they're of poor quality.

The gape, aqua/electric blue stripes on the opercular flap and the classic spazz-twitch when they are held made me think GSF. The orange border on the opercular tab made me think RES - also because it's from a lake dominated by RES.

I hope this makes more sense. Any guesses as to the genetics of this fish?
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231646 - 08/19/10 10:00 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
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Loc: Miss.
I can understand the confusion. That fish has attributes of all 3 fish species BG , GSF and RES. GSF can have that type ear tab with color. The pectoral fins look like part BG and part RES but not GSF. The bar pattern is BG while the head coloration is GSF. Dorsal fin is shaped like a RES. Body color and shape is BG ish. Mouth size is GSF.
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#231649 - 08/19/10 10:14 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: ewest]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Thanks Eric - so you're thinking it's a multi species hybrid - BG, RES and GSF?
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231659 - 08/19/10 11:11 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
CJBS2003 Offline
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When you catch another, pull a gill flap back and photograph the gill rakers, that will go a long way to properly IDing what hybrid it is...
_________________________
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#231665 - 08/19/10 11:30 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: CJBS2003]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I'll call Matt an ask him to catch another one...I've been trying all year without success! I will figure this new camera out and try to get better photos.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231705 - 08/20/10 09:57 AM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Loc: Miss.
I did not address PS as I did not think they were in the source pond.

Gill rakers will help (for sure get a pic of them) but they too can be just as confused especially without a comparison to the base fish in the pond.
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#231707 - 08/20/10 10:18 AM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: ewest]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
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Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Originally Posted By: ewest
Gill rakers will help (for sure get a pic of them) but they too can be just as confused especially without a comparison to the base fish in the pond.


Ewest, can you explain this statement (in easy to understand one syllable words that even a bean counter can understand)?

Are you saying that gill rakers of a given species can very pond to pond? Or am I reading too much into this statement.

(Years of reading tax code and trying to interpret between the lines has muddled my already cloudy and somewhat demented cranial contents).
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#231756 - 08/20/10 03:20 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: jeffhasapond]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Here's a better photo...not sure if it helps or not:


_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#231764 - 08/20/10 04:58 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19620
Loc: Miss.
Looking at gill rakers is hard enough with all the info in front of you (something to compare with at a minimum is needed). That is true even with pure species. Yes pure species vary based on local conditioning. The major morphological traits donít vary as much but yes some. If you are looking at mix species - good luck. For instance does anyone know if the GSF trait for 9-12 short and thick primary gill rakers on the 1st arch or the BG trait of 13-16 moderately long primary gill rakers on the 1st arch is genetically transferred to HBG ( GSF x BG). Answer is the hybrid of GSF X BG has an intermediate appearance of gill rakers .What if itís a 3 way cross ( HBG X RES). Now to even make it more difficult if a hybrid like TJís has 9-12 short and thick primary gill rakers on the 1st arch is it from a GSF or a PS each of which have that trait. Experience and something (its relatives) to compare with can only help in the guess work.
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#232068 - 08/23/10 10:57 PM Re: RES Hybrids [Re: ewest]
F-H Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 133
Loc: Central NY State
boy thats a neat one.

I'm watching the post curiously.
Thanks for posting -
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