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#228310 - 07/26/10 04:03 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley
I love that setup Cecil. Is that yours or is it from the book? It is incredibly brilliant! OK... forget the gravel entirely. I'm hooked on the idea of the deer net clarifiers. I want my fish outside so I probably would need to build them with black drums so they don't get clogged with algae.

Do you use an inverted milk carton for your settling area and drain excess waste off the bottom of the clarifier?
If so how often? Also what is the cap on the siphon for? Can you somehow start the siphon by putting water in there?

What's going on with the rotating drum? Is that green film over that white stuff only on the outside of it or does it go all the way through the cylinder? Looks like it was made from a solid cylinder of styrofoam. Is that correct? That goes directly in your pond? I don't think that would work outside. Could you explain what it is and how it works better? RBC... Rotating Bio Cylinder?

In the greenwater tank culture system I read about they only used aeriation and clarifiers. No filters. The clarifiers looked huge and expensive. I think they used a 350 gallon one on a 20 foot diameter tank. Do you think using six or seven 55 gallon drum deer net clarifiers would be just as good on a swimming pool of the same size or would I also need additional filtration?

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#228322 - 07/26/10 04:37 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: esshup]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Since I assume that your pool is outside, don't let the neighbors see you peeing into your pool. Cecil was able to get away with it because his tank was in the basement. grin


You just can't let that go can you Scot? grin
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#228327 - 07/26/10 05:06 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
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#228329 - 07/26/10 05:20 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Well I could say you need to subscribe to Pond Boss to support the webstie to get the answers to the following questions but I won't. Hint, hint! grin

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
So how big is the Stock Tank you are using now?


It's 300 gallons and just under five feet across. The RBC is actually sized for a 12 foot swimming pool. In the book Small Scale Aquaculture they use a 12 foot swimming pool with a liner for tilapia.

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
How many fish do you have in it?


I have several hundred 4 to 6 inch bluegills in it that started out at about 1/2 to 3/4 inches in February including some I brought in a few months later from a floating cage that were already 2 to 4 inches.

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
How long does it take to get them ready to put fish in them and what sizes are safe to put it in?


It depends on the temperatures. The closer to optimum for the two species of bacteria the faster it happens. Optimum is upper 70's to low 80's. There a slight different in preference of the two species but not enough to worry about. My water was quite cold in the low 60's F. this winter without heaters so it took about 5 weeks if I remember right. In optimum temps you could have the tank cycling in two weeks, especially if you seeded it with some bacteria from another tank or aquarium.

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
What exactly is RBC?


Rotating biological contact filter. The plates are surface area for the nitrosomonas and nitrobactors. The plates moving in and out of the water keeps them wet but contact with the air gives them plenty of oxygen.

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
How often do you have to remove the solids and how hard is it to do? Thanks


I drain and clean the clarifier ever couple of days but could probably get by with doing it less often. In the book Small Scale Aquaculture with the 12 foot swimming pool there are two clarifier tanks and I believe they only do it once a week.

Not difficult at all. I have a bulkhead in the bottom of the tank that is connected to a PVC elbow and a barb fitting and a simple clear hose clamped on that when not in use is mounted vertically on the wall. When I want to drain the clarifier I simply drop the hose into a drain in my basement floor. However before that I detach an extension on the clarifer end of u-tube and cap the short end. This keeps the siphon intact. In the picture I added a 't' for fill up but it's really not needed, and it created problems for me as apparently it has an air leak in the threads. Just a u-tube made of PVC and PVC elbows works great. There's no need to reestablish the siphon each time as long as you cap it under water.

It takes about 10 minutes for the clairifer to drain by gravity. Then I remove the filter material and spray it off in the drum, and the put the filter material temporarily in another drum next to the clarifer. This takes another 5 minutes or so. So total time to drain and clean about 15 minutes. Of course I can go do something else while the clarifier is draining. Once the tank is completely drained I mount the hose up on the wall vertically and secure with a zip tie. Before I used the insurance of the zip tie, one day I was sitting the nearby shop working on taxidermy and a flow was water shot past me!

Make up water gets pumped in with a battery powered pump from an iron removal system I set up which runs on the same principal as the clarifer but consists of two drums side by side.

Here's the bottom drain on the clarifier. The tank is mounted on a cinder blocks to clear the plumbing from the floor.



Here's various drain hoses mounted on the wall when I don't want them to drain. The water will only come up to the level of the clarifier.





Here are some fish. The water does have a brown tint due to tannins in the feed, but the flash gave it a yellow color for some reason.


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#228330 - 07/26/10 05:22 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Bill Cody]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody

Cecil - that is a good school. I'm still attending it, but will probably never graduate. BC.


Same here but staying in that school and learning is fun so I don't mind! grin I seem to learn the best from my mistakes and also retain more! wink
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#228331 - 07/26/10 05:23 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: andedammen]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: andedammen
Try reading thru this hole book,(free) the patent holder dr. Novak (American) is a sientist but also a hoby koi enthusiast.
There is a lot off controversy to his filter system (anoxic)but it seems most off his critics manufactur or distribut(sell) competing technology for big money, so a cheap DIY solution is bad for buisnis?

He coresponds with happy Koi breders around the world, that have adopted this way off filtering the koi pond.

http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration.html.

The site is indipendent and have made the anoxic filter solution understandable (language) to hobyists.
Dr. Novak still get prety heavy beating on a lot off koi forums, by "disbelivers" However the number off people sucsesfully using anoxic filtration is increasing in the US as well.
Seems it's hard to become a "profet" in your own country.

Iff you dont belive in the method after reading the book I think maybe, 1. generation ERIC (Endless River In Concrete)by Waddy is a good an cheap($) route to prosue if your handy(DIY), do to the simplisity off the set up.


Andy,

When I get time I will read this. I'm always interested in new ideas. Thank you for providing the link!

Anerobic bacteria will also reduce nitrates which aerobic does not.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (07/26/10 05:24 PM)
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#228333 - 07/26/10 05:28 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Rainman Offline
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Be honest Cecil...WE know why that water is yellow! shocked laugh laugh
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#228337 - 07/26/10 05:42 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve
I love that setup Cecil. Is that yours or is it from the book?


No, all ideas and know how came from Steven Van Gorder and his book Small Scale Aquaculture. I wish I was that smart! I will tell you if I can build it anyone can. And if at first it looks complicated don't be scared away. It's actually a simple concept. Fish tank, biofilter, clarifier. That's it!

Originally Posted By: surfsteve
It is incredibly brilliant! OK... forget the gravel entirely. I'm hooked on the idea of the deer net clarifiers. I want my fish outside so I probably would need to build them with black drums so they don't get clogged with algae.


Actually if you have it outside you will have to deal with algae even with black drums. That is, unless you use some type of ultraviolet clarifier in your system. That said the algae is not necessarily a bad thing as it works on ammonia and produces oxygen during the day.

Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Do you use an inverted milk carton for your settling area and drain excess waste off the bottom of the clarifier?


No see my response to MrHello.


Originally Posted By: surfsteve
If so how often? Also what is the cap on the siphon for? Can you somehow start the siphon by putting water in there?


No and Yes. Also see my response to MrHello.

Originally Posted By: surfsteve
What's going on with the rotating drum? Is that green film over that white stuff only on the outside of it or does it go all the way through the cylinder? Looks like it was made from a solid cylinder of styrofoam. Is that correct? That goes directly in your pond? I don't think that would work outside. Could you explain what it is and how it works better? RBC... Rotating Bio Cylinder?

It goes directly into the tank of fish but I will be moving it out ASAP to a connecting tank. It is getting a little dirty with particulates which reduces it's effectivenes.

It's a series of alternating plates made of fiberglass roofing and polystyrene plastic that provide surface area for the bacteria that will detoxify your water. The foam is only for flotation and is four pieces a couple of inches thick if I remember right. There a couple of PVC axles inserted into each other in the middle.

You really need to see the book Small Scale Aquaculture to see how it's done and how to build it. The book has specs and everything. There a couple of minor errors on measurements, which I cover in the Pond Boss article.

[quote=surfsteve]In the greenwater tank culture system I read about they only used aeriation and clarifiers. No filters. The clarifiers looked huge and expensive. I think they used a 350 gallon one on a 20 foot diameter tank. Do you think using six or seven 55 gallon drum deer net clarifiers would be just as good on a swimming pool of the same size or would I also need additional filtration?


I don't know much about greenwater culture systems so I'm not qualified to answer that. I will say if you have a tank outside and you develop an algae bloom you have a greenwater system. However all those drums sound like a lot of trouble and expense to me. I'm a KISS guy. (Keep it Simple Stupid.)


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (07/26/10 05:43 PM)
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#228338 - 07/26/10 05:43 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Rainman]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Be honest Cecil...WE know why that water is yellow! shocked laugh laugh


Good one Rex!


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (07/26/10 05:43 PM)
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#228350 - 07/26/10 06:52 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
JKB Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
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Cecil,

What is all that table salt sitting on the wall for?... Got a grill set up next to the tank for that special day smile

Nice to see some pic's of your BG, they look good!

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#228362 - 07/26/10 09:14 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: JKB]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: JKB
Cecil,

What is all that table salt sitting on the wall for?... Got a grill set up next to the tank for that special day smile

Nice to see some pic's of your BG, they look good!



Everybody's in a teasing mood today! grin

For those of you that don't know I add salt to the make up water to get a 0.2 percent (2 ppt or 2 gm/l) solution of salt which reduces osmotic stress on the fish. I also used a much higher amount as a dip before I added them to the system to kill any parasites hitchhiking a ride.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (07/26/10 09:15 PM)
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#228366 - 07/26/10 09:43 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
MRHELLO Offline
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Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Cecil,

Thanks for the info that is helpful.

By the way I subscribed to Pond Boss last Friday.

Will salt kill the yellow grubs the BG get?

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#228375 - 07/26/10 10:50 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley
Would the clarifier be more effective if it were ebb and flow instead of just water running through it?

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#228384 - 07/26/10 11:49 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
brier Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 147
Loc: ohio
Nope, wont kill yellow grub, but it will go along way to control ectoparasites like leech's and anchor worms. Also makes O2 more available, and nitrite less toxic. Sorry, I know that question was directed towards Cecil, but I could not resist.

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#228385 - 07/26/10 11:52 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
brier Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 147
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Would the clarifier be more effective if it were ebb and flow instead of just water running through it?
It would surely be more complicated.

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#228407 - 07/27/10 08:42 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: brier]
MRHELLO Offline
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Brier,

Not a problem, nor did I think it would kill them either as I have seen them crawl out of the fish fillet after cleaning them while they are soaking in salt water.

They just hung out at the bottom of the bowl and when dumped the fish to rinse them I noticed they were still alive.

Now I guess this may seem like why did I ask the question, but I just wanted to know if maybe there was a certain amount of salt that has to be added to kill each type of parasite.

Thanks

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#228409 - 07/27/10 08:57 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
brier Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 147
Loc: ohio
It is the fact that white grub is encysted that makes them tough to kill. Salt might very well kill a white grub if it is loose in the water given enough time. But you simply cannot soak a freshwater fish long enough in a strong enough solution of saltwater to kill an encysted parasite. It does work very well for ectoparasites like I mentioned above, and also for ich. It wont do much for the actual ICH on the fish, but Ich has a short life cycle, and during its freeswimming form, it is highly susceptible to salinity. So with the right amount of salt, it cannot complete its life cycle, and dies out

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#228422 - 07/27/10 10:18 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: MRHELLO]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
Cecil,

Thanks for the info that is helpful.

By the way I subscribed to Pond Boss last Friday.


Good deal. Nice to see you're helping support the website unlike a few other people around here that just want free info. whistle

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
Will salt kill the yellow grubs the BG get?


No, but I don't see any in my fish since I stake off the pond banks from the herons. As long as there isn't a snail in your tank and a pet heron in the house you shouldn't have to worry. grin

I suppose one could treat the fish for internal parasites in a separate tank if need be as long as they are not food fish. Aquatic Ecosytems has some chemicals used for Koi. I could do that as my fish are destined live for aquariums and frozen to other taxidermists.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (07/27/10 10:33 AM)
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#228423 - 07/27/10 10:19 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: surfsteve]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Would the clarifier be more effective if it were ebb and flow instead of just water running through it?


I don't believe so. My thinking is the more flow you can get through the filter the better, so running it 24/7 would be best.
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#228426 - 07/27/10 10:21 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: brier]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: brier
Nope, wont kill yellow grub, but it will go along way to control ectoparasites like leech's and anchor worms. Also makes O2 more available, and nitrite less toxic. Sorry, I know that question was directed towards Cecil, but I could not resist.


Not a problem Brier. I look forward to your input. I hope you keep us apprised of your operation, and any time you can add to the discussion please do so.

Hey speaking of nitrites did you know fish in the sunfish family are very tolerant of nitrites?
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#228428 - 07/27/10 10:25 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: brier]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: brier
It is the fact that white grub is encysted that makes them tough to kill. Salt might very well kill a white grub if it is loose in the water given enough time. But you simply cannot soak a freshwater fish long enough in a strong enough solution of saltwater to kill an encysted parasite. It does work very well for ectoparasites like I mentioned above, and also for ich. It wont do much for the actual ICH on the fish, but Ich has a short life cycle, and during its freeswimming form, it is highly susceptible to salinity. So with the right amount of salt, it cannot complete its life cycle, and dies out


If I might add, Ich can also be controlled by manipulating water temperature in a tank. Fortunately I've never experienced Ich and hope I never will.
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#228436 - 07/27/10 10:51 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
adirondack pond Offline
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Found some interesting info on cold tolerance of Nile Tilapia.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ista6/ista6web/pdf/030.pdf
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#228445 - 07/27/10 11:13 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: adirondack pond]
esshup Offline
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Just to be sure that nobody kills fish with salted water, don't forget that the salt has to be the non-iodized variety...
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#228450 - 07/27/10 11:20 AM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: esshup]
MRHELLO Offline
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I wonder if pool salt would work, much cheaper to buy in 40 pound bag.

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#228469 - 07/27/10 12:28 PM Re: Can talapia be raised above ground swimming pools? [Re: Cecil Baird1]
surfsteve Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 125
Loc: near death valley
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: surfsteve
Would the clarifier be more effective if it were ebb and flow instead of just water running through it?


I don't believe so. My thinking is the more flow you can get through the filter the better, so running it 24/7 would be best.


I was sure you were going to say ebb and flow would be much better. Otherwise why go through all the trouble of making a Rotating Biological Contact filter? I guess the real question is. Do the microbes in the filter do their job better if they are kept wet all the time? Or is it better if they are continuously dunked? And if so. Is it significantly better?

Also. The purpose of making the outdoor filters out of black barrels would be in my mind to keep the light out of the barrels so algae doesn't grow on the deer net, which I am afraid might render it useless. It has nothing to do with trying to filter the algae in the water out. I read that algae is good food for tilapia. I wasn't sure if you understood me. I guess I should have asked. Will the algae harm the biological filtering process by competing with the microbes if allowed to grow on the deer net? Seems like it would mess things up. But on the other hand if Algae gets caught up in the filter in the dark I think it would die and either settle to the bottom of the tank or become food for the microbes. Any ideas?

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