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#223422 - 06/24/10 06:08 PM Water Primrose
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Ok I think 2 of our 3 ponds have water primrose. I wanted to know all my options to get rid of it.

Will Grass Carp or Tilapia eat it?

Does it make good cover for fish or should it be removed?

I hope to be back over there soon so please experts let me know what I should do.

Thanks

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#223424 - 06/24/10 06:19 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14021
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Glyphosate with Cide Kick as a surfactant is the usual recommendation. I tried it without the Cide Kick this year with lousy results.
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#223432 - 06/24/10 08:49 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: Dave Davidson1]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
So is this good shelter for BG and Shiners or would something else be better?

Are GC or Tilapia an option?

What other types of plants may grow if this was not growing?

Also does this really cause any problems or is if more of an eye sore?

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#223436 - 06/24/10 09:04 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
jeffreythree Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Denton & Red River countys, TX
I have it and it makes shore fishing a pain. BG and small LMB like to sit at its edge and smaller fish hide further in it. I wonder how much it impacts the LMB getting a decent meal when the forage can dart into it for cover. I rake out sections to make fishing easier for now and leave it in the areas I cannot fish from.
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#223444 - 06/24/10 09:20 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: jeffreythree]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
I have it in my pond but it's very rare. Go figure.
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#223476 - 06/25/10 07:28 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: Cecil Baird1]
jsand13 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 469
Loc: Appling ,Georgia
2-4D will smoke it. Navigate or just a regular ester based.

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#223480 - 06/25/10 08:52 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: jsand13]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Does it supply any benefits?

If so what would they be?

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#227291 - 07/20/10 11:30 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Trying to get more feed back on this.

Does Water Primrose supply any benefits is so what are they?


Or should I do my best to get rid of it now and any fish willing to eat it?

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#227344 - 07/20/10 05:53 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19943
Loc: Miss.
Put a few goats around the pond for a few days. They will eat water primrose.
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#227349 - 07/20/10 06:04 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: ewest]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
If I had goats I would do that.

I guess shiners or other forage do not like this?

It is a pain to fish around, but does it really cause much trouble to the pond, or long term problems?

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#227417 - 07/21/10 09:02 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
andedammen Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 414
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
Trying to get more feed back on this.

Does Water Primrose supply any benefits is so what are they?


Or should I do my best to get rid of it now and any fish willing to eat it?


This is the plant:
http://www.cessnock.nsw.gov.au/resources/file/Environment/Weeds/Water%20Primrose.pdf

Iff you can look upon "the plant" as any plant, keep that in mind whilst you are watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gszr5vVtp58&feature=player_embedded

"The plant" in the video contecst might give you answer to Q ?

Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
If I had goats I would do that.

I guess shiners or other forage do not like this?

It is a pain to fish around, but does it really cause much trouble to the pond, or long term problems?


I don't think shiners or other forage, would have any like/dislike on your thoughts off what you would do or not do, with your goats iff you had goats.
However to be on the safe side, don't let them in on your thoughts/plans.
You are the BOSS so you make the rules, what ever you add or take away
will make some sort off impact small or big time, short or long term.

Sort off weird having a God like role isn't it?
Adds a even absurd dimension to it, that what you/I/anybody decide in a (one) particular BOW, can spread like wild fire in a endless domino effect,on all BOW's

You must feel a heavy burdon, having to decide upon so many differente ponds and having the desire to raise so many speicies.

Do you keep writen records(log) on the ponds, or have it all in your head?

Keep up the good work, by the way where are the pictures?
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#227422 - 07/21/10 09:44 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: andedammen]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
I am not sure if you are seriously curious of my situation or making fun of me.

Kind of hard to tell from what you have written above.

I know I ask many questions, some I am sure more than once, many probably very basic or no brainer ones.

But since I have really no idea what I am doing, not much money to work with, and spent most of what I had on the first pond that I screwed up, I keep asking to avoid this situation again.

I know the best, fastest, easiest, way to fix my screw up is to drain and start over, but like I have said that is not an option as budget is stretched, and in these days you never know when they will be cut off completely.

Now if you are indeed concerned and interested in my situation and progress, I deeply appreciate it and will keep you posted.

The pics of course need to be loaded up and I have a hard time getting to it once I get home from work.

I do however plan again to go to my Devil Creation BOW this weekend to throw out some feed and try once again to land a CC.

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#228390 - 07/27/10 12:15 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
Chad Fikes Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Whitesboro, TX
All aquatic vegetation supplies some type of habitat. Yes smaller fish will hide within thick stands of primrose and yes bass and larger bluegill will hide out on perimeter of primrose. However it does make fishing difficult because it tends to make thick mats which can easily foul hooks.

Grass carp and/or tilapia generally have little effect on primrose because it is a shoreline emergent plant. If grass carp have nothing else to eat they will nibble on primrose but don't expect miracles.

Primrose also dislikes fluctuating water levels. If primrose gets flooded it will generally die on it's own. If water levels drop slowly then primrose can get established and be difficult to manage.

Your best bet is to use glyphosate a surfactant or imazypyr and a surfactant. However don't use together as you won't get results you are after. I speak from personal experience. I prefer a different surfactant than Mr. Davidson but Cide Kick should work. I would use a surfactant that is labeled for aquatic purposes.
_________________________
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#228394 - 07/27/10 12:34 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: Chad Fikes]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Primrose dislikes fluctuating water levels? Don't think so. I planted primrose in a pond because it was one of the only plants that thrived with them. Three years straight I had 9 foot or over water drop during droughts and it thrived. I put it on an embankment where nothing else would live, the deadest shoreline on this pond. After I did that it was the most active shore on the pond. I trim it down and cast on top of it weedless, then when my lure drops off I get a hook up, usually a nice lmb waiting in ambush.

A lot of forage hides in there where I had zero forage cover before. It also helps the food chain, recruitment and sucks up excessive nutrients to hold off the algae. The only thing I have found that really can trump it is parrotfeather. But that stuff is a menace. The key to primrose is to only let it grow where you want it. When it goes to other areas I hand pull it. Plus during drawdowns it keeps the shores green instead of mud. In some ponds it's a blessing, in others a nightmare. But it sure does provide good forage cover.


Edited by The Pond Frog (07/27/10 12:36 AM)

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#228403 - 07/27/10 07:16 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: The Pond Frog]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
PF, what if the primrose gets established when the pond is low (it starts to grow below full pool line) and then the pond floods, or raises to full pool for a few months? Will enough of it float up so it continues to grow?
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#228406 - 07/27/10 08:35 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: The Pond Frog]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
Primrose dislikes fluctuating water levels? Don't think so. I planted primrose in a pond because it was one of the only plants that thrived with them. Three years straight I had 9 foot or over water drop during droughts and it thrived. I put it on an embankment where nothing else would live, the deadest shoreline on this pond. After I did that it was the most active shore on the pond. I trim it down and cast on top of it weedless, then when my lure drops off I get a hook up, usually a nice lmb waiting in ambush.

A lot of forage hides in there where I had zero forage cover before. It also helps the food chain, recruitment and sucks up excessive nutrients to hold off the algae. The only thing I have found that really can trump it is parrotfeather. But that stuff is a menace. The key to primrose is to only let it grow where you want it. When it goes to other areas I hand pull it. Plus during drawdowns it keeps the shores green instead of mud. In some ponds it's a blessing, in others a nightmare. But it sure does provide good forage cover.



So do you think it would supply adequate cover for forage to spawn such as FHM, Shiners, Gambusias, Top Minnows, etc.?

I will have to agree that it makes fishing a little hard, especially if you get a nice LMB and have to try to real in through it.

My main concern was besides looks, and trouble fishing what issues would I have with it, like water quality issues, DO issues, etc.

Thanks

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#228419 - 07/27/10 10:05 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: esshup]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: esshup
PF, what if the primrose gets established when the pond is low (it starts to grow below full pool line) and then the pond floods, or raises to full pool for a few months? Will enough of it float up so it continues to grow?


I have it established where it is a good 9-10 feet under the full water mark. The pond floods during Spring rains, it makes it to the top, usually within a month or less. It is rooted, unlike coontail. But will break apart and spred by fragment also. But unlike lilies it has no rhizome, not as much stored energy so it is a great grower. It will cover an entire shoreline, fast. When the water srops it stays green, my residents love that and the little yellow flowers instead of mud and dirt. But it does die back in my hardiness zone. Just about vanishes in the cold. It also will die back severely way up on the shore if it can't get water. But in my area, it is probably the number one marginal plant, with cattails.

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#228425 - 07/27/10 10:21 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
The Pond Frog Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
Primrose dislikes fluctuating water levels? Don't think so. I planted primrose in a pond because it was one of the only plants that thrived with them. Three years straight I had 9 foot or over water drop during droughts and it thrived. I put it on an embankment where nothing else would live, the deadest shoreline on this pond. After I did that it was the most active shore on the pond. I trim it down and cast on top of it weedless, then when my lure drops off I get a hook up, usually a nice lmb waiting in ambush.

A lot of forage hides in there where I had zero forage cover before. It also helps the food chain, recruitment and sucks up excessive nutrients to hold off the algae. The only thing I have found that really can trump it is parrotfeather. But that stuff is a menace. The key to primrose is to only let it grow where you want it. When it goes to other areas I hand pull it. Plus during drawdowns it keeps the shores green instead of mud. In some ponds it's a blessing, in others a nightmare. But it sure does provide good forage cover.



So do you think it would supply adequate cover for forage to spawn such as FHM, Shiners, Gambusias, Top Minnows, etc.?

I will have to agree that it makes fishing a little hard, especially if you get a nice LMB and have to try to real in through it.

My main concern was besides looks, and trouble fishing what issues would I have with it, like water quality issues, DO issues, etc.

Thanks


Actually as far as forage cover not much matches it. It may mat up on the surface, but usually is not thick under that. Everything lives there. Especially gamefish fry. Up to fingerlings. I had zero recruitment at this pond until I got it established. Ans I was tasked to eradicate it on one shoreline at another pond, so the price was right. Gambusia and fhm thrive in it. So do bullfrogs and crawdads. It's like a brood zone. But the big lmb know that and sit right off of the edge, lying in wait.

It is a little tougher than most pondweed and smartweed. I am able to get most my lmb through it, but if they make a run deep into I lose them a lot. It actually helps my water quality by absorbing nutrients, providing shade. It can be nasty invasive. But it si also one of the easiest to hand pull if it is in the water, tougher on shore, but not in soft mud.

It tends to stick on shorelines, and does not grow in open water at all. At least on bigger ponds. On smaller ponds, it can cover the entire surface. In some ponds I add it, in others I remove it. Works well in drawdown ponds, as that kind of help keep it in check. But still, if it gets to places I don't want it, I hand pull it. I have never had to herbicide it. The only plant I know that can handle the conditions it can is parrotfeather. From the milfoil family. But that stuff gets to thick under water. And in ponds where both exist, parrotfeather will eventually crowd out primrose. A better oxygenator, but way too invasive for earthen ponds.

I think if I had the time to manage it, I would have it on maybe 25% of a pond's shoreline for forage cover and diversity. Maybe 5% cattails.

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#228441 - 07/27/10 11:09 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: The Pond Frog]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Pf,

Thanks for the info that makes me feel a little better as it does not seem to be as bad as other weeds, and if for some reason I want to get rid of it I can pull it up. Plus I can always make some fishing lanes so to speak to help, or even take a raft out in the middle of the pond and throw back to the weeds to catch the bass.

I have this in 2 of our small ponds, which I wonder if it may make it possible for the FHM to survive predation assuming they stay in the stuff.

You did not mention anything about shiners and if they may spawn in it.

One bad thing about these two ponds with the Primrose is that the Cows get in it most of the time and while they knock it down in areas making it easier to fish, I wonder if they are also destroying eggs and fry?

Also I think this is why my water is so turbid in those 2 ponds, I would like to keep the cows out but I am sure my Mother-in-law can use the check from leasing it more than the looks of a clear pond.

I think it was mentioned that neither GC nor Tilapia will eat this so it pretty much has to be a mechanical removal.

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#228456 - 07/27/10 11:26 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
PF, what USDA Ag zone have you had it survive the winters?
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#228858 - 07/29/10 08:39 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: esshup]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Here are some pictures, is this Water Primrose?


Attachments
Water Primrose.jpg (994 downloads)
Water Primrose 2.jpg (1247 downloads)



Edited by MRHELLO (07/29/10 08:40 PM)

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#228870 - 07/29/10 09:42 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19943
Loc: Miss.
That looks like WP that we have. It is easy to control (as water plants go).
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#228904 - 07/30/10 06:34 AM Re: Water Primrose [Re: ewest]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
Well the last time I went out there most seemed to be gone, so either it has died with the heat or the cows smashed it down or ate it.

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#229020 - 07/30/10 11:06 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19943
Loc: Miss.
Cows yes. Heat does not kill WP.
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#493720 - 07/13/18 04:39 PM Re: Water Primrose [Re: MRHELLO]
rwilliams Offline


Registered: 07/13/18
Posts: 1
Loc: OK
I know this is an old thread, but I am new to the pond 'business'. Just bought a small piece of property that has a small pond on it. I do believe I have the creeping water primrose on it and just had a quick question. This thread has alleviated my thoughts on it being a bad thing, but it definitely is thriving. I will see about posting a pic.

The one thing I am concerned about is the water level of the pond currently. We haven't had a TON of rain lately, but the pond level is pretty low. Other factor, of course, would be the extreme heat we are having. So...brings me to my main question:

Does primrose consume too much of the pond to bring it down too much? I have seen this pond for almost a year now and have never seen it this low, but also didn't see this much primrose either. The previous owner probably kept it at bay, but I am completely new to this venture, as I have lived in the city most of my teenage and adult life. When I was young and lived in the 'country', we didn't have a pond, so completely new to me at this point.

If it does affect the pond water level, should I just let it go, trim it back, add water (if possible - not a ton, but to keep it from getting too low)?

Thanks all.


Edited by rwilliams (07/13/18 04:58 PM)

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