Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Time to think predators

Hi everybody. I've been lurking for a while and decided to talk about my situation. My brother and I are managing our new four acre pond. It is oxbow shaped and has a max depth of 20-25 feet. It was built in 2009 and for the rest of last year we added tons of stone and structure in it. He was already thinking SMB. This spring we put in fatheads and golden shiners which seem to be doing well. Crayfish have made there home here already, probably coming from the nearby vernal marsh. Anyway, now we are thinking about other fish, which we will stock next spring. Our goals are to create a serene lake/pond with quality fishing, I'm not talking huge fish, or tons of easily caught fish but somewhere in between. Also, we want to make the best of our northern location, so I'm ruling out LMB/BG. Finally, we really want diverse fishing. I was even thinking about adding my pet bowfin in the mix as a novelty catch, and maybe I'll see him cruising the lake once in a while. I have the forage, now I want to start talking the real fish. What do you guys think I should do?

Pike. Want some? Come on out to my dad's place and you can have as many 20" NP's as you can catch.

Seriously, though, taking advantage of a northern location, as much as they are being a problem for me at the moment, you could have some awesome pike fishing in there. But personally, I love pike, my dad hates them, and i think i get the same 50/50 sense on these forums.

Maybe Tiger Musky would be best though, sterile as they are, then you could really monitor how many you had at any given time.

Sounds like it could be developed into an absolutely awesome SMB fishery! Maybe some trout as well. Pray tell why you haven't shared pictures of this great sounding place with us yet, CBopp?

I like your idea of trying to avoid the typical stocking plan and think that you could do some really cool stuff with that much water and with cold water species that aren't found in the typical pond. Unfortunately, I don't really know what those are, but I'm confident the folks here will have some ideas.

It's possible northerns may not be a species that can legally be planted in Vermont. I would check. I know they are present in Lake Champlain and probably other lakes and rivers of Vermont, but they considered a nonnative and invasive species in other New England states like Maine. Pike are doing a number on trout in the lakes of Maine and the Maine Department of Fisheries is seriously upset. They are spreading from one drainage to the next.

Trout purists of New England only want themselves to be the predators. I know because I used to be one of them.

Yeah, i just thought they were legal because i've heard so much about champlain pike fishing.....and just the mention of invasive species makes my skin crawl.....What about T. Musky, then, if the pike don't work out?

Good call Mr. Baird, thanks for thinking about what i didn't. as usual, i'm awesome at showing how uneducated i am on the subject.

Cbopp, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! We need more New Englanders to share their experiences and observations...we are lacking in that department of knowledge. So....we're EXTRA glad you posted!

First off, congratulations on embarking on your project. Sounds very cool and you have a lot of water with which to work. Balanced fishery - got it. I think you have some great suggestions here - this is what I would consider in your position:

You've got a unique setting for your fishery - I would consider these cool water species:

YP - I love them and they do well in my NE pond. I would suggest 75-100/acre in your pond depending on what density/role you want them to play. If you want jumbo perch, stock 50/acre. If you want regular catches of 10-12" fish, go 100/acre. They are my favorite freshwater fillet tied with Walleye.

SMB - I love these too - would serve as another apex predator. Depending on your goals [trophy fish or just abundant medium sized fish] go 25-75/acre. Again, it all depends on your stocking rates of other fish and your goals.

WE [Walleye] - I'll bet your lake could support them. While you may have an issue with natural reproduction, you can always supplementally stock them to keep numbers up. I suggest 25/acre. An apex predator-very tasty!

TM [Tiger Muskie] - If you want a few surprises in your lake, you could consider 2-4/acre. Never know when you'll manage to hook one. Sounds like a blast!

Trout - They would exist mainly on pellets, grow super fast, and provide action all winter when other fishing subsides. No idea on stocking qtys here, Cecil is your man for that. No idea on species either, but I'll bet Rainbows, Brook, Cutthroat, or Splake [brook/lake hybrid] would all make it. My personal favorite is Cutthroat but I'm a Western US fly fisherman.

Those suggestions are all cool water predators. Many factors to weigh when considering stocking densities like available forage, your goals for that species [trophy or smaller but higher qty], will you be pellet feeding, etc. When you get to that point let us know and the experts can guide you capably.

Now you need something for the kids to catch regularly and to serve as a forage base for all these predators....

Panfish species could include BG or PS. I don't recommend either if SMB and YP will serve as your only predators as their limited gape prevents them from keeping panfish numbers down - resulting in overpopulation and stunting. Not good. If you are going to stock WE and/or TM, maybe a panfish species would work. Many schools of thought on that subject, and I'm not qualified to address this. My FEELING is to stock BG or PS if you are going to have TM and WE. Do NOT stock them if you're only going SMB and YP.

FHM are temporary, but important to jump start your fishery. GSH can serve as a great forage base, and studies suggest [Dr Dave Willis and Dr Mark Cornwall] that GSH might establish a self sustaining population in the presence of SMB and YP. If you have WE and TM also you may need to periodically stock adult GSH to keep their densities high.

If you wanted to stock Male only BG you would have a trophy fishery, but they would have to be stocked periodically. Cool idea though.

Perhaps there is a hybrid sunfish with low fecundity that could fill the panfish niche well? RES are often suggested for SMB/YP ponds due to low fecundity and they aren't a threat to overpopulate and stunt. RES won't make it in your climate, so how about some hybrid - say PS/BG hybrid? You could stock Female PS and Male BG and if their fecundity is low you've just accomplished your goal. I have NO idea if this would work or not - Eric, Cecil and Bill Cody can shed some light on this concept and probably develop it much further. I do know we all lack a panfish species for northern ponds where apex predators have a limited gape. Maybe you're the one to figure this out for us! What are your thoughts, guys?

I hope some of this is helpful. Looking forward to expert opinions coming soon.

Hey TJ, what about long-eared sunfish for this situation? I believe they have a low fecundity, they don't get nearly as large as BG or RES, and they are a very good looking fish, also.

EDIT: Actually, I did some checking, and I am not sure they inhabit that far north.

teehjaeh has hit the main points. 4 acres and 25' is a substantial pond. Any idea what your bottom temperatures are looking like?

Were I in your shoes, I would definitely stock SMB.

I would avoid NP, for the invasive species reason that others have covered, and also for the fact that they might reproduce and fill your pond with stunted 14" pike. Not a fun situation. TM could be cool, but you have to remember that your pond won't be able to support a large number of them, and that they will probably snack on any WE/YP/Trout you stock, along with probably some SMB.

WE/YP are both a solid idea. As others have pointed out reproduction might be an issue, but they make a put-grow-take fishery. I would use YP and no WE myself, for a couple of reasons. I find YP much easier to catch when ice fishing than WE, WE apparently grow very slowly in ponds, and WE don't hit a large maximum size in ponds. I believe that feed-trained YP can also be purchased from some hatcheries.

Trout might or might not oversummer in your pond. Were I in your shoes, I would put in maybe 30 RBT and see if they make it through the heat. Brooks are apparently more temperature/oxygen sensitive than RT, and experience has taught me that Browns can be very tough to catch in small lakes. No idea how Splake/Cutthroats do. RT are a good ice fish, and I've heard that Splake are too.

Not a problem and please don't underestimate your education. If you only knew what little I knew...

Thanks everybody. This is an great site! Quick and educated information.

I don't think I will stock pike. I do love to fish for them, and pickerel but I don't think I want to make a pike fishery. I think I do want walleye as a bonus fish though.

TJ - Thanks for such a detailed list. I'm leading towards SMB as the main predator, in fact I'm pretty sure I do. There just doesn't seem to be much else that works well. I love yellow perch too and hope to include them, but I know from fishing live bait they love small fish. Do you think this will cause a problem. Should I stock less SMB to even out?

I hope to add trout too, and I like Txelen's idea to try bows first to see if they survive the summers. Then I really want brooks and some more bows, I'm unsure about browns. I think cutthroat trout are only western trout, I don't think they live around here. Can I really stock splake? I didn't know people sold them.

How do I find out bottom temperatures?

I do want sunfish. It just doesn't seem right without them. Also, I love pumpkinseeds. Not sure about TM though, should I add them, I've read that they can eat ponds out of fprage. By the way, could someone confirm that triploid grass carp are illegal in VT? I guess I'm going to call someone about it anyway. Thanks

Also, Cecil - Yup. I know a lot of die hard New England trout fisherman, even the few that would swear that the fly is the only way to catch trout. I always enjoyed them, but more often I went for bass and toothy gamefish.

Is your pond is anything like the rest of the hilly, rocky VT countryside I've been lucky enough to visit? If so, I'm thinking you have no shortage of granite, boulder fields, crushed rock, etc. Can you provide some photos of your pond or at least fill us in on the details? Water clarity? Any ideas of max summer temps? Spring fed or is your watershed major water source?

I am thinking if you have a rocky environment in your pond, you have a great chance for establishing a SMB population and they could thrive with a strong crayfish forage base which will love the rocky structure. I think you stand a great chance of getting reproduction, too.

I feel your YP stand a great chance of reproduction if you're willing to add some pvc structure for their egg strands. The local hatchery who supplies my YP actually says he pulls spawns annually with absolutely no structure whatsoever - and claims they even spawn in his raceways. Not sure how reliable that info is - I'd try to add something in the way of spawning structure to be safe. Remember, if you pellet feed your YP will utilize pellets to a large degree - and you can get your SMB feed trained, too.

Crayfish won't feed your SMB and YP solo - they go through different stages of availability, so you need an ancillary forage source. GSH are a solid choice, and I think you could get a self sustaining population given some habitat and robust initial stocking efforts.

If your pond is all rock and is devoid of aquatic vegetation, you may be able to entertain stocking PS or BG. Dr Willis has stated in ponds dominated by predators with limited gape [SMB or YP] panfish populations may be managed given pond characteristics of steep sides and little vegetation. Basically, the YOY panfish have no where to hide, like hunting in a bathtub for the SMB and YP. Easy pickins.

I won't go on, even though I'd like to! Before we go further we need to know more about your ponds. Let us know everything you can so we can tailor the advice.

CBopp sounds like you have a great pond, very large with good depth.
You've gotten good advice from others so I'll just speak to species I have in my pond.
Golden shiners and Pumpkinseeds are tough and would be good forage for your predators, since you have GSH if you want PS's get a small amount of adults so they should survive predation and maybe spawn this year.
As far as trout I've had Rainbows, browns, brooks, and tigers, the brookies are more fragile when it comes to warmer temps and low O2, browns are real shy, rainbows are tough and grow fast and tiger trout grow fast and will hit your fishing lures faster than the other three.
Maybe try a small number of each if you can get them, and see if they survive, although this is a bad time of the year.
Try keeping a journal of pond temps. especially at depths of more than 5ft.
Feeding your trout can really help them to grow fast but if you have alot of natural forage don't be surprised if they don't eat alot of pellets, mine prefer the natural stuff.
Good Luck and let us know what you stock.

AP

How do you manage your PS population? How is the fly fishing coming? Haven't seen any video yet.

TJ with my daughter in college and doing her internship at the hospital I am an almost full time babysitter for my 2 grandkids.
I get up to the cabin for a day every week or two but I spend the time working on things, my fish feeder holds enough food for 3 weeks cause it's on a 1 second feed rate cause the trout don't eat much.
The trout are jumping and I saw them chase shiners when I was there last, but I have only fished once this year.
The GSH far out number the PS's, I think the adult GSH prey heavily on the PS fry.
My daughter has a 3 week break coming the end of july, that will be my vacation.

I'd advise against Browns. My experience with them in small, stocked BOW's in Wisconsin is that they are very wary and difficult to catch on spinners/spoons. Minnows seem to work OK as bait, and tiny dry flies might do the trick, but Browns are a tough fish. They can also get large and very piscivorous. If you want another large-sized aggressive predator in your pond to supplement the SMB, stocking Walleye or just paying through the nose for large Brooks from a hatchery might be the ticket.

I don't know if people sell Splake, but I know that the Maine DNR loves them. I'm not sure of temperature tolerance, it'd be neat to throw 3-4 in and see if they come back out. They're supposed to grow quite quickly.

Best technique for bottom temperature that I know of is to put a waterproof thermometer in a jar full of water, tie a string around the jar, and throw it into a deep part of the pond. Give it 12 hours, then haul it up and read the temperature. The jar of water will not change temperature quickly, so you can get an accurate reading of the bottom.

If you plan to stock a species of sunfish my recommendation would be to give the SMB a substantial head start... I would make sure you give your original stocking of SMB at least 3-4 years of growth before stocking the sunfish. That should allow the original SMB to be well over 12" with some maybe pushing 15"+ to better control your sunfish spawn. If the sunfish go in with the bass, their first spawn will quickly outgrow the mouth gape of the limited numbers of SMB and too many young sunfish will make it to where no SMB are big enough to eat them. Whereas, if you stock your SMB well in advance, even with their smaller mouth gape, a 15" SMB can eat a much bigger sunfish a properly control the sunfish spawn keeping them from stunting.

As far as sunfish species go, I agree RES are not an option as you are too far north. I would skip BG, they just have too high a fecundity and will most likely overpopulate in your pond with only SMB and WE feeding on them. PS would be a better option, they spawn only once a year, do well in cooler environments and are just darn pretty to look at! Although they struggle to top 6" with a 9" fish a true monster. A number of New England hatcheries have them, so sourcing them shouldn't be to big an issue. LES(longear sunfish) can be found into Canada(northern LES subspecies), so they certainly handle cold water. However, they are not native to Vermont. Sourcing them would be a nightmare if they were even legal to stock. A strong species to consider is the RBS(redbreast sunfish).

They are native to Vermont, are another pretty species and do well in rocky/sandy ponds. SMB and RBS go hand in hand here in the east in most rivers... They can run a bit larger than PS, with a big one being 8" and a monster being anything over 10". There are a couple of hatcheries that sell them in New England and several that sell them in the southeast. Even the unusually rosey red morph that is a pinkish golden hue.



In 4 acres, the stocking of even controlled TM can really cause issues. Figuring a TM can reach 36" in 3 years and 48" in 8, think about how many and how big of a YP and SMB a 36"-48" TM can eat... Just 4 could really hammer your population. If you want a walleye fishery, you're going to have to stock 8"+ fish regularly to keep a population around. Even at 16", a 36" TM could gobble them down... Think very carefully before stocking TM into a 4 acre pond! If you need an Esox species, consider CP. They max out around 30" with 20" fish being more common...

Your best best at getting a trout to survive is no doubt the brown trout. They are the most tolerant of higher water temps and lower DO levels. You can always try brook and rainbow trout first and if they fail, try browns. Yes, they do get smart and can get quite large and piscavorous. Keep the stocking numbers reasonable and I don't think they will cause many issues. If anything they will help you control the smaller PS, RBS or other sunfish young as they will hammer the snot out of them in the winter when they are active and the sunfish are mostly dormant. I doubt you will be able to find a hatchery source for any trout other than the big 3 and perhaps tiger trout which are also a predatory option.

I don't think a bowfin here or there is gonna make a big difference. 4 acres is a reasonable amount of biomass to play with and gives you room to play that a 1 acre pond just doesn't afford.

If you have the ability to catch and correctly ID wild forage fish, there are three excellent species native to VT which would be a better option than FHM as they could better handle SMB/WE predation and would be more likely to lead to sustaining populations. Banded killifish, bluntnose minnow and northern redbelly dace. If you are willing to put some work in, they would be worth your efforts. If you are able to collect a couple hundred or so of each species and stock them this late summer/fall or next spring, with no or newly stocked predators they have a great chance of establishing. Attempting to get them to take hold after your predatory fish are established will be tough. Take a look at the photos, these species are on the easier side to ID, particularly the northern redbelly dace and banded killi.

male and female bluntnose minnow in spawning condition


non spawning bluntnose minnow


banded killifish male


banded killifish female


northern redbelly dace male


northern redbelly dace female/juvenile


Please post some pics of your pond! Sounds like it is a beauty with lots of potential!

Here's a list of Vermont hatcheries... Looks like they all only sell trout, but perhaps they sell warm/cool water fish as well, Give them a call and check.

Sweet Water Trout Hatchery
Shaye & Jennifer Collins
Collins Mill Road
Newport Center, VT. 05857
Phone: 802-744-6553
(Brook, Brown & Rainbow Trout)

Matt Danaher
737 Eastham Road
Shrewsbury, VT. 05738
Phone: 802-492-3442
(Brook & Rainbow Trout)

Essex Technical Center
Hugh Gibson
3 Educational Drive
Essex Junction, VT. 05452
Phone: 802-879-5569
Rainbow Trout

Riverbend Career and Technical Center
Tom Smith
Oxbow Drive
Bradford, VT. 05033
Phone: 802-222-5212
(Brook, Brown & Rainbow Trout)

Mountain Foot Farm
Curtis D. Sjolander
154 Blakely Road
Wheelock, VT. 05851
Phone: 802-626-9471
(Brook, Brown & Rainbow Trout)

Peak Pond Farm
Louis Warlick
RR1, Box 563
Randolph Center, VT. 05061
Phone: 802-728-5065
(Brook & Rainbow Trout)

Thomas Morgan
P.O. Box 252
Randolph, VT. 05060
Phone: 802-728-9306
(Brook & Rainbow Trout)

Michael Gross
1221 Happy Hollow Road
South Royalton, VT. 05068
Phone: 802-763-7326
(Brook & Rainbow Trout)

CBopp, here's an inexpensive thermometer with probe that you can use to check pond temps. down to 10ft.
http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-1522-Indoor...3694&sr=1-9

AP:

That is very similar to the one that I have. Before I got the boat I would float it across the pond on a piece of styrofoam, stopping at the middle of the pond for a while. Then reeling it in and looking at the min reading. I put the display inside a zip loc bag for extra water protection. Your local big box stores have them for about the same price.

Yeah Scott they are real handy, I've had one on my dock for 3 years, the probe runs down a piece of 3/4" pvc to protect it from the ice, sensors at 5ft. depth. Another one is attached to an 8ft. pole that I use to check around the pond from the canoe.

Travis that's a mountain of great info - here are my reactions:

First off, thanks. This passionate feedback is what Pond Boss is all about.

I totally agree with your thought of establishing SMB first, or stocking with adult fish in order to help control panfish pops.

I agree go for sunfish with lowest fecundity. I don't know enough about the "other" species to make a recommendation. However, I would love for one of our members to have a sunfish species that unique - like the RBS. We need to know more about their potential roles in pond management.

If a guy really wants Esox - TM IMO are the way to go - but totally agree they may have unforeseen consequences on the fishery. Stock them with the purpose of foraging on sunfish, but they may instead be hammering WE, YP and SMB. NOT something intended - but can happen.

Questions:

Is the BT more tolerant of water issues than the hybrid Donaldson RBT? I know they can survive water temps up to 70-75, love pellets, grow fast, are aggressive, and are widely available throughout the West at least.

The forage species you recommend, we need to know more. Why are they more suitable to serve as a forage base than other minnows? I imagine they avoid predation better than FHM? They have a lower maximum size than GSH? How about fecundity? We are all looking for self sustaining populations of forage fish - we need to know MORE about these species. For a SMB/YP pond - IS THERE A SILVER BULLET[s]?

If by BT you are referring to brown trout, then yes, I believe they are the most tolerant of any trout species and any rainbow trout cultivars I know of. Our brown trout have a few that hold over almost every year. We've had maybe a couple rainbows hold over in the same conditions. They are more expensive than rainbow trout though. Rainbow trout are typically cheaper than both the brook and brown trout. Rainbows are usually easier to find. Pretty much every hatchery that sells trout will be selling rainbows. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of hatcheries sell browns, at least here in the east.



All three species are able to handle predation better than FHM. FHM are adapted to life without predators. They live in flooded backwaters that get hot and low in DO where other species would die, they thrive in without that competition. FHM are used by fish farmers because they are easy to raise, reproduce fast and tolerate handling well. They are not raised because of their great attributes as a sustaining forage species. The three species I mentioned are better suited to predation and can commonly be found in the wild in locations where predators are found, unlike FHM. All three mentioned species are raised commercially by scattered fish farms. So they can be procured from a commercial source. However, they aren't like FHM and GSH which nearly ever fish farm raises and sells. Are these silver bullets? Far from it! If you have no habitat for them and have over abundant predators, they aren't going to last... These fish don't have spines, are fusiform and reach maximum sizes in the 4"-5" range... Perfect predator fish candy...

Hello again. Sorry for the absence but I was really busy with work and seeing some distant family again. Thanks Txelen for the thermometer help. I have an underwater one for pools that should work.

CJ- If I do wait 2-3 years to stock sunfish, should I just stock adults? I like the idea of RBS, although I don't know of anyone who could stock them in New England. Does anyone know of anyone? I don't know much about them. Do they reproduce less often, or have fewer offspring. What's the real advantage over PKs? I do know baitshops that sell northern redbelly dace, and plan to ask around for them or any of the other two forage species.

I don't want TM. I think they will go after my WE, YP and SMB before they look at sunfish.

We'll see about Brown trout. I might add a few of them eventually once the balance is set.

TJ - There is vegetation in my pond. I can't really say the percentage, it's mostly on one side. Also, GSH and FH are already stocked. There is a spring, but it isn't very large and doesn't do much to the pond and there is a stream that only flows after rains and during the spring. It comes from the marsh, which does not contain any fish besides small minnows which I believe are some kind of chub. They only get about 3" max. It has been dry around here, and water has kept very well, better than I thought. How do I test water clarity? Is it when an object comes out of view?

I was thinking about deepening the creek when it is dry and adding rock to create a channel. Possibly some WE spawning?

Alright, recap. I'm going to try to find some other forage fish like the ones CJ kindly mentioned. Other fish species include SMB and YP. I still want more info of RBS and PK sunfish. Finally Walleyes. Could somebody help me out on stocking rates? I also plan on trying out a mix of rainbows and brooks, maybe 30 as somebody said. Just to see how they do, I hope the brooks can survive the summers.

If you wait 2 or 3 years and allow your SMB to get in the 12"-15" range, then I would stock adult sunfish. Say, in the 5"+ range and around 50 per acre per species. So say you decide to stock both PS and RBS. You'd need to stock around 200 of each species. You may even be able to get away with less if you are willing to have some patience. These are not going to be the back bone of your forage base like BG would be in a LMB/BG pond, so you don't need large numbers making babies to feed your bass... That is what the other forage species are doing. As far as sourcing them... I can't recall the place, but I know there is at least 1 hatchery in NY that sells RBS and several that sell PS. I know of several that sell RBS in the southeast and a few will ship them overnight UPS or FedEx.

Here's some info on BG, RBS and PS to help you out:

BG:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 1 or 2
Spawning occurs May to September
Males build colonial nests in shallows on sand or gravel
Females spawn several times a year
Fecundity is about 80,000 eggs per female per year

RBS:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 2
Spawning occurs May to August at water temperatures of 61-82.5°F
Males build nests over silt-free or lightly silted sand and gravel in cover
Nests are usually grouped closely together in calm pool margins
Fecundity is about 963-8,250 eggs per female

PS:
Reproductive Habits:
Mature in 1-3 years
Spawning occurs early May to August
Nest in colonies on sand and small gravel in open shallow areas
Fecundity is 1,034-2,436 eggs per female per year


NRBD make great bate and are often used for that purpose... Just make sure they are northern and not southern RBD. Southern RBD are not adapted to pond life and probably will survive in a pond, but won't be able to reproduce... So they would be a waste of money and effort as a forage fish.


I think that is a smart decision. Maybe after you have several years under your belt, you can stock 1 every year or every other year if you see your YP or SMB getting too numerous. Other than that, I'd skip them...


Brown trout won't reproduce in your pond, so they are easily controlled. If you don't like them, fish the ones you stocked out and no worry of piles of babies to deal with. That is the nice thing about stocking fish that can't reproduce in ponds. They are easier to manage.


If you can, set a trap or try to net some of those minnows you think are chubs and any other fish you catch in the marsh. If they are there and it sometimes connects up with your pond, they're also in your pond... I would be curious to see what species they are and whether they would be a benefit to your pond as an added forage, or a detriment. Take photos of them and post on here so we can ID them for you.


Do a search for Secchi disk on here. There are several good threads on how to build and use them to measure water clarity. For your goals and where you are located in the country(northern), fertilization probably isn't a good idea. Too much risk, particularly if you are trying to have trout live year round in your pond.


The odds of you building a structure that will allow walleye to successfully spawn is minimal with much expense. I would search for a supplier of walleye in NY or VT. Even if you were able to get them to successfully spawn, the odds of the young surviving to harvestable sizes would also be slim. There just aren't many bodies of water that have naturally sustaining walleye populations out there. Even man made reservoirs with larger feeder rivers rarely produce a naturally sustaining walleye population. I would save your money and time to spend on another goal...



I would keep the walleye numbers fairly low. Walleyes just don't seem to do well in ponds. 10-20 per acre per year. As I already mentioned, I wouldn't bother trying to get them to naturally reproduce in your pond.

There is no reason why you can't stock both RBS and PS. They have a much lower fecundity than BG and typically spawn once in the spring and then are done, unlike the continued rolling spawn of BG. Utilize them as an added panfish for eating and for the kids to enjoy catching, but you won't rely on them as backbone forage species. Your shiners and minnows will be the back bone.

Experiment with low numbers of trout at first to see if they even will survive the summer in your pond. If they do, then you can consider adding more. If you feed pellets, they will compete little with your other fish and focus mostly on pellets.

Here's my recap opinion:
A pond with SMB/WE as primary predators and YP/RBS/PS as panfish, utilizing FHM/GSH/BNM/BKF and NRBD as primary forage could work if the right habitat is there and you don't allow the SMB to become overcrowded. When they start reproducing you will need to start keeping catch records and most likely remove SMB. Now if your pond for what ever reason doesn't produce good SMB spawns, the complete opposite may be the case. You'll need to make sure your SMB and WE are properly controlling your YP so they don't over crowd and over eat your forage as well. You can assist them by removing most of the YP egg strands you observe in the early spring. Research this in the archives as both Bill Cody and Cecil Baird are masters at this method and grow huge perch by heavily controlling their numbers. You can also consider stocking SMALL numbers of TM over the years to assist you in controlling SMB and YP. But, I suspect the TM would much rather prey are large GSH than spiny perch and bass so you using hook and line is probably the best control. Put redbreast sunfish and pumpkinseed sunfish into Google and search them. Read up on them and decide if you want them. I see no reason why you can't have both in your pond. Stock small numbers of trout to see if they will survive year round. If they do, they can be an extra bonus fish. If they don't you can stock them in the fall and utilize them as a put and take fishery through the colder months as most forum members who use trout in their ponds do.

One last thing, with your pond being fairly close to another BOW, there is risk of unwanted species making entry. Try to determine that there are only the 3" chubs and nothing else in that BOW. If there are LMB, GSF or others this could really throw the plans out of whack. So take a close look at that. You will most likely see a natural migration of wild crayfish from the marshy area into your pond. However, you can trap them from the marshy area and assist them in finding your pond. Walk rocky areas of your pond as night with a spot light and shine the water. If you see crayfish, you know they found your pond on their own. They will be heavily utilized by the SMB. SMB are more able to do well on less fish and more inverts than LMB. That's why I think this stocking plan is more likely to work out.

Thanks Travis, great input. I can't imagine how cool it would be to have Brownies merely a cast away...I have to travel a thousand miles to get truly good brown trout fishing...lower Yellowstone and Boulder drainage in MT.

You should raise these specialty minnows and provide them to the forum. I would love to diversify my forage base to see what performs the best.